Epson, Summa, Roland, Mimaki, Mutoh??????

[ucmj22]

Looking to upgrade our shop from our Summa DC2. We want to be able to compete on High end, long term vehicle wrap jobs. We would like to stay between 48 and 64 inches wide. There is so much to consider and no one but salesmen to ask. I like the Summa for its maintenance free aspect and no need for a separate laminating machine, but it lacks in versatility, output, and finish resolution. All the salesmen say that eco solvents are virtually maintenance free also. How true is this? has anyone actually figured out the actual cost psq ft for their machine? what do you guys recommend? What should I definitely stay away from?

 

[Circleville Signs]

I would suggest demo-ing a few different machines. a 54" printer will provide the most bang for the buck, however it's nice to do wraps with a 64".

We use a Mutoh right now, but I've also used Roland stuff. It really boils down to what you like to use. Roland's RIP software is one of the better ones out there as far as what comes packaged with the printer, however I like the funcionality of the Mutoh better.

As far as ink cost/sf, we average about $.32/sf. If you use third party inks, you can cut that dramatically, however I wouldnt' do it till you are out of your manufacturer's warranty period.

On the maintenence issue - HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You need to do a manual cleaning on your Eco-Sol at least once/week. Thats for average use. if you are a heavy use shop, plan on 2-3 times/week. Now, the process isn't difficult, but it takea 5-10 minutes.

I wouldn't use a Summa for anything, but that's just me. I also don't care for the Mimaki stuff.


Gary

 

[ucmj22]

why not summa? I know the res is low (3-600dpi) but for wraps you wont really be right next to it anyway. And I must say, The Tech support from Summa has been Priceless. Always available and can usually fix my problem in 30 min or less. how has support been with other manufacturers?

 

[Circleville Signs]

I don't like resin based printers. No logical reason - just don't like them. Didn't like the Edge, don't like Summa's.

As far as tech support goes, you will find that it is more a matter of the company you buy from than the manufacturer.


Gary

 

[ucmj22]

I always call Summa directly. We bought the DC2 used, but the lifetime tech support is transferable so I use them often when I hit a wall.

 

[ucmj22]

wow... thats it... no more ideas from anyone?

 

[tcorn1965]

I would suggest demo-ing a few different machines. a 54" printer will provide the most bang for the buck, however it's nice to do wraps with a 64".

We use a Mutoh right now, but I've also used Roland stuff. It really boils down to what you like to use. Roland's RIP software is one of the better ones out there as far as what comes packaged with the printer, however I like the funcionality of the Mutoh better.

As far as ink cost/sf, we average about $.32/sf. If you use third party inks, you can cut that dramatically, however I wouldnt' do it till you are out of your manufacturer's warranty period.

On the maintenance issue - HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You need to do a manual cleaning on your Eco-Sol at least once/week. Thats for average use. if you are a heavy use shop, plan on 2-3 times/week. Now, the process isn't difficult, but it takea 5-10 minutes.

I wouldn't use a Summa for anything, but that's just me. I also don't care for the Mimaki stuff.


Gary

A little off topic, for that I am sorry. Might help someone. We used to have a Epson 1400 for Dye Subbing with the bulk ink system. It took a crap before the warranty was up and Epson said they would not warranty it because we were using airartanium bulk ink, thus voiding the warranty (not using original OEM inks) Owners wife is a lawyer and showed me the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act
I brought this up to Epson and they shipped a refurb one that day. Here is the specific paragraph that makes it illegal for printer companies to do this.

Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act#cite_note-1 This is commonly referred to as the "tie-in sales" provisionshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act#cite_note-2, and is frequently mentioned in the context of third-party computer parts, such as memory and hard drives

We then started looking into 3rd party inks for the Vutek, can get them alot cheaper...Although with the Vutek we found out that they (3rd party) would have to use our empty ink boxes because of some encoding one the box.

Terry

 

[kev3232]

had a summa at a shop i ran. hated it BIG TIME!!!
got a roland at my shop, KICKS ASS!!

 

[FatCat]

I'm with Circleville in that I really like my Mutoh VJ and I have it paired with Wasatch SoftRIP which does really well on print quality and colors. The Mutoh has been great on the days when I have a full load, as it prints quickly all day long without a hiccup. In the same breath I can admit it has sat idle for several days and I fire it right back up with a quick headwash and it goes back to work. For me it has been both reliable and easy to use.

 

[Zambookajoe]

I have a mimaki jv33 and its a great printer. easy to use, prints on basically anything.

I clean it once a week. for about ten minutes

 

[Liquid GraphX]

Mimaki for the win my man! Simply great printer....onyx rip..... I bought mine from Advantange from Jason King awesome sales guy he no longer works there but he helped out over and above the call of duty....but Advantage has a great tech suppport too.

 

[ucmj22]

ok, here is a dumb question, but since I have only worked with thermal transfer, I dont know. If my summa sits around for a month not being used, i can turn it on and hit print no problems, what is the procedure with ink printers. also I was looking to print whites and metalics. I believe one of the only solvent printers that does this for under 60k is the roland XC540 MT. But I also heard that with both the white and metalic, solvent inks they have to be agitated, therefore if you dont use them all in one shot, they will separate, and be worthless. how long can a solvent printer sit idol without the inks going bad... do they go bad? like I said, having only dealt with my 54in thermal, I just dont know.

 

[signage]

If you let a injet sit for long periods without using it one of two things happen you either waste lots of ink on cleaning cycles or the ink dries up and you replace parts! So if you do not have enough work to print daily either get a thermal or sub out your printing!

 

[Mainframe]

If you are planning to buy a printer & have it sit around for a month, you seriously need to think about subbing out your printing, the solvent printers do not like sitting for a long time unused, I can't imagine not running my printer most every day & I am just a small one man shop. If you want to print metalics you will have to buy the Roland

 

[FatCat]

If you need to print whites and metallics on a regular basis I would stick to your Summa. I feel its too far of a stretch for inkjets. It CAN be done, but the question is at what cost or hassle?

FWIW - I turn my printer off at night. Yes, I turn it OFF. In fact my printer was turned off from Wednesday night before Thanksgiving until the following Monday. I turned it on, did a quick headwash and it went back to work. A lot of guys will tell you not to do this, but from research and my own experience the eco solvent ink is fairly forgiving. (Not like true solvent inks.) Plus I am using genuine OEM ink which I feel is much better for the machine than 3rd party inks, but to each his own. I don't burn 20+ carts a month like some guys do. In that instance, I can see where 3rd party ink savings could add up quickly and justify having to replace your head more frequently.

 

[Jeff South Florida]

I think the brand of the printer does make a difference, but the dealer makes an even bigger one. I sell and love the Mutoh, but highly suggest you interview the dealer first. Does the dealer have service technicians on staff or do they use a third party. What is there response time. How long of a warranty. How much training on the machine and RIP do you get?