"Essential Critical Infrastructure" & "Critical Trades"

[Moze]

Writing this from the research gathered as one who only installs signs. I don't manufacture. I don't have vendors that manufacture. I don't sell anything. I strictly install.


Despite the impending Shelter in Place order, I have a number of customers (sign companies) still wanting their signs installed. A few now have told me the same thing - that since they are listed under the Construction Industry, they are still legally allowed to proceed with installations. These are large companies that wouldn't proceed without reliable legal counsel given everything that's happening, so I believe that legally, they are completely within their rights.

But there is a lot of gray area and overlap when it comes to legality, ethics and morality.

So here are the layers to this stinky onion:

Among the persons allowed to break the Shelter in Place order in Dallas County are those operating "Essential Businesses".

Among those "Essential Businesses" are those businesses involved in "Essential Critical Infrastructure".

Included in that "Essential Critical Infrastructure" is "Residential and Commercial Construction".

Included in "Residential and Commercial Construction" are "Critical Trades", summarized as follows:

"Critical trades. Building and Construction Tradesmen and Tradeswomen, and other trades including but not limited to plumbers, electricians, exterminators, cleaning and janitorial staff for commercial and governmental properties, security staff, operating engineers, HVAC, painting, moving and relocation services, and other service providers who provide services that are necessary to maintaining the safety, sanitation, and essential operation of residences, Essential Activities, and Essential Businesses and Operations."

So let's say I have 1500 signs to install for a customer (sign company) at an office building for one of the nation's largest law firms (end customer). The end customer will occupy multiple floors but hasn't moved in yet. Other trades are continuing to (legally) work and maintain the required 6' separation from others. Among the signs that need to be installed are Emergency Evacuation Maps, Stair & Level signs, Area of Refuge signs, etc....signs that would be critical in an emergency. The site will still receive scheduled inspections by the usual agencies in order to obtain the TCO and CO. In other words, these projects are legally moving full steam ahead, regardless of any ethical or moral concerns. Cash is king and legal rights take precedence over ethics and morality.

As insignificant as signs may seem, some of them, at least according to the guidelines, are needed for "maintaining the safety.... and essential operation of....Essential Businesses and Operations."


These are new and interesting times we're living in. There are gray areas that some will feel are black and white. I'm not asking anyone what I should do....I'm just kind of laying my thoughts out and am interested to hear yours...

 

[Jester]

Questions to ask yourself:
Can you do your work without physically interacting with other persons? Can your company do its work without exposing yourself or your employees (I'm assuming you aren't a sole proprietor) to each other or to third parties, OR to infected surfaces? In other words, can you comply with the letter AND spirit of the quarantine?

 

[visual800]

Today, weather permitting, I have a boxtruck to letter. I will do that boxtruck. I will be outside and theres no issues. I personally do not see a problem with that. Would I go to a medical facility thats fully open and install signage? No. Im not going to stop working but I can use common sense without "government help" interferring in my life. I will not allow the government to determine whether I am "a critical entity" I can do that on my own BUT allowing me to use my own judgement as to whether to install or not. Those are my thoughts.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Its not essential to maintaing the operation. Construction trades are listed because an hvac company would be needed to repair or replace a system that broke, roofer for a leaking roof, carpenter to replace a broken door etc. Finishing new construction wouldnt be considered essential in most cases as far as I can tell.
The more you guys rewrite the rules to suit yourselves, the more restrictive they will become and screw it up for everyone else.

 

[signage]

There are a lot of business out there that are considering themselves Essential (Home Depot, Lowes) to name a few. I see a lot of people at these establishments buying non-essential items, mulch, paint, carpeting, etc. when I have drive by going to the grocery store. These people are possibly endangering the employees and others there getting necessities. These places need shut down and only do business for essential items and by the management of these companies are only worried about making money not there employees safety! They should all be held responsible if any of there employees get this virus!

If you can work and not endanger others and disinfect what you touched there shouldn't be a problem. Going out in public to do it should be a problem.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Writing this from the research gathered as one who only installs signs. I don't manufacture. I don't have vendors that manufacture. I don't sell anything. I strictly install.


Despite the impending Shelter in Place order, I have a number of customers (sign companies) still wanting their signs installed. A few now have told me the same thing - that since they are listed under the Construction Industry, they are still legally allowed to proceed with installations. These are large companies that wouldn't proceed without reliable legal counsel given everything that's happening, so I believe that legally, they are completely within their rights.

But there is a lot of gray area and overlap when it comes to legality, ethics and morality.

So here are the layers to this stinky onion:

Among the persons allowed to break the Shelter in Place order in Dallas County are those operating "Essential Businesses".

Among those "Essential Businesses" are those businesses involved in "Essential Critical Infrastructure".

Included in that "Essential Critical Infrastructure" is "Residential and Commercial Construction".

Included in "Residential and Commercial Construction" are "Critical Trades", summarized as follows:

"Critical trades. Building and Construction Tradesmen and Tradeswomen, and other trades including but not limited to plumbers, electricians, exterminators, cleaning and janitorial staff for commercial and governmental properties, security staff, operating engineers, HVAC, painting, moving and relocation services, and other service providers who provide services that are necessary to maintaining the safety, sanitation, and essential operation of residences, Essential Activities, and Essential Businesses and Operations."

So let's say I have 1500 signs to install for a customer (sign company) at an office building for one of the nation's largest law firms (end customer). The end customer will occupy multiple floors but hasn't moved in yet. Other trades are continuing to (legally) work and maintain the required 6' separation from others. Among the signs that need to be installed are Emergency Evacuation Maps, Stair & Level signs, Area of Refuge signs, etc....signs that would be critical in an emergency. The site will still receive scheduled inspections by the usual agencies in order to obtain the TCO and CO. In other words, these projects are legally moving full steam ahead, regardless of any ethical or moral concerns. Cash is king and legal rights Trump 2020 ethics and morality.

As insignificant as signs may seem, some of them, at least according to the guidelines, are needed for "maintaining the safety.... and essential operation of....Essential Businesses and Operations."


These are new and interesting times we're living in. There are gray areas that some will feel are black and white. I'm not asking anyone what I should do....I'm just kind of laying my thoughts out and am interested to hear yours...

For what it's worth, and I'm not encouraging you to aid the spread or break the rules... but in that press conference Jenkins said he focusing resources on helping people and stopping major crime, and that we have to police ourselves. Could you legally define yourself as exempt? Maybe. Will people driving by seeing you put up non essential signs get upset with you? Likely.

 

[Moze]

Questions to ask yourself:
Can you do your work without physically interacting with other persons? Can your company do its work without exposing yourself or your employees (I'm assuming you aren't a sole proprietor) to each other or to third parties, OR to infected surfaces? In other words, can you comply with the letter AND spirit of the quarantine?

For me personally, the answer to all of these is questions is yes. My installs rarely require interaction with anyone on site.

I am a sole proprietor. No employees.

 

[Moze]

Its not essential to maintaing the operation. Construction trades are listed because an hvac company would be needed to repair or replace a system that broke, roofer for a leaking roof, carpenter to replace a broken door etc. Finishing new construction wouldnt be considered essential in most cases as far as I can tell.
The more you guys rewrite the rules to suit yourselves, the more restrictive they will become and screw it up for everyone else.

The example I listed is new construction. I'm certainly not rewriting the rules. I was careful to quote the guidelines. "Residential and Commercial Construction" is specifically listed as "Critical Infrastructure" as are the trades required to complete that construction. Some trades are specifically listed, the rest are covered under "other trades". Those are the "rules" written by the experts.

 

[Moze]

There are a lot of business out there that are considering themselves Essential (Home Depot, Lowes) to name a few. I see a lot of people at these establishments buying non-essential items, mulch, paint, carpeting, etc. when I have drive by going to the grocery store. These people are possibly endangering the employees and others there getting necessities. These places need shut down and only do business for essential items and by the management of these companies are only worried about making money not there employees safety! They should all be held responsible if any of there employees get this virus!

If you can work and not endanger others and disinfect what you touched there shouldn't be a problem. Going out in public to do it should be a problem.

Yeah, I can see people thinking "we're about to be stuck at home for three weeks or more, let's go buy paint/mulch/whatever and get some projects done". They also probably reason they can do so without interacting with anyone since they can use self-checkout. Certainly not "Essential" activities, though.

 

[Moze]

For what it's worth, and I'm not encouraging you to aid the spread or break the rules... but in that press conference Jenkins said he focusing resources on helping people and stopping major crime, and that we have to police ourselves. Could you legally define yourself as exempt? Maybe. Will people driving by seeing you put up non essential signs get upset with you? Likely.

Agreed. And for what it's worth, I certainly wouldn't use any of the guidelines as an excuse to to do any and all installs out there. There are definitely installs that don't qualify as "critical" and I'll decline to do those. But even for the trades following the guidelines, there are going to be plenty of people that don't agree with it. I'm certainty not going to let that impact my ability to make a living. The government isn't going to replace the money I'm losing, so if I can legally work and adhere to the provided guidelines and not endanger others in the process, I'm not going to cease and desist because it might upset someone.

 

[signage]

Yeah, I can see people thinking "we're about to be stuck at home for three weeks or more, let's go buy paint/mulch/whatever and get some projects done". They also probably reason they can do so without interacting with anyone since they can use self-checkout. Certainly not "Essential" activities, though.

How does using self-checkout not endanger someone else? they also will need fuel and other things that can potentially put other in danger. ie: employees at those lacations stocking, cleaning getting fuel to drive, others standing in line.
PA guidelines:

 

[Notarealsignguy]

necessary to maintaining the safety, sanitation, and essential operation of residences, Essential Activities, and Essential Businesses and Operations.

You are leaving this part out to fit what you want it to be. New construction does not fit. They allow these trades to function when they are engaged in critical service work on exisiting essential operations. Its not a blanket do whatever you want

 

[Johnny Best]

This virus just does not just get passed amongst ourselves through close contact, It also stays on objects for hours that someone who is infected touched. Even the floor you walk on and when you take off your shoes it passes on to you.
Moze you are going to do want you want no matter what someone on here says. You are endangering the herd by stepping out to do what you have decided to do. The self containing of people is what works to fight this thing. It seems your more concerned about your business and lack of money will hurt you, but what about the people around you getting sick. Your family and community health does not seem to concern you, Your afraid you will be dumped for future projects by this sign company because its a big job, fear is what is driving you, that jingle of money in your pocket won't do you much good laying in a hospital with a diaper on and breathing with the help of a ventilator. Plus we would miss you here telling us about all your tools and how much Lexel is better than GE silicone for adhesive.

 

[Moze]

How does using self-checkout not endanger someone else? they also will need fuel and other things that can potentially put other in danger. ie: employees at those lacations stocking, cleaning getting fuel to drive, others standing in line.
PA guidelines:
View attachment 146136

True. The danger is there. I guess I was thinking if someone was vigilant and took precautions, it could be done (wipe TouchPad down with wipes after using, etc).

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I'm certainty not going to let that impact my ability to make a living.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

True. The danger is there. I guess I was thinking if someone was vigilant and took precautions, it could be done (wipe TouchPad down with wipes after using, etc).

If it was this simple, it wouldnt have become a pandemic

 

[Moze]

You are leaving this part out to fit what you want it to be. New construction does not fit. They allow these trades to function when they are engaged in critical service work on exisiting essential operations. Its not a blanket do whatever you want

"Residential and Commercial Construction" doesn't include new construction? What kind of reasoning is that?

I didn't leave anything out - I included that excerpt in my opening post. I'm not making anything fit what I want it to be. I've already taken the initiative and postponed jobs that would have generated thousands but that I deem non-essential. I'm specifically discussing jobs that are still under construction.

I'll dumb it down: Drive anywhere around Dallas. Construction projects have not stopped. Why? Because part of "Essential Critical Infrastructure" is "Residential and Commercial Construction". Signs may seem insignificant, but a Certificate of Occupancy won't be given unless there are certain signs in place and they pass inspection.

 

[Moze]

If it was this simple, it wouldnt have become a pandemic

To be clear, if there's a Shelter in Place issued, I don't think it's a good idea to go by paint and mulch for home projects. I was simply saying I could see how someone could (falsely) reason that what they're doing is ok.

 

[Gino]

There are those who will self-quarantine and there are those who need the government to explain it to them to help save, not only themselves, but others. Someone may become infected and not show signs of it, while continuing to endanger all those within 10 ' of them. That is the same mentality of those stupid a$$ kids down in Florida partying like there's no tomorrow. Being selfish and pretending they are essential is just foolish and self-serving. We were doing ADA signs in a hospital last week. 100's of them and we hadda go under the wing of the construction company doing the work, as it was not deemed essential for us to be there. So, rather than give the signs to the construction company, we worked out a deal. Went in on their dime. This week however, now they're closed down. They need the building, but they are not allowed to finish it. Is that less essential than you doing some attorneys signs who aren't even in there conducting their ambulance chasing business ??

 

[Notarealsignguy]

To be clear, if there's a Shelter in Place issued, I don't think it's a good idea to go by paint and mulch for home projects. I was simply saying I could see how someone could (falsely) reason that what they're doing is ok.

But going and installing signs at some lawyers office is??? You keep leaving out a very important word in the guidelines “maintaining”. New construction of water lines, sewer, electrical would be part of maintaining critical infrastructure.