expectations of perfection and is there an acceptable amount of imperfection

[jaylem]

When laying cut vinyl on irregular surfaces I find that using hi grade vinyl with an air egress it can reduce virtually all the wrinkles and bubbles. However, there can be some very small and slight wrinkles. Is having four or five very small wrinkles in about 150 sq ft an acceptable amount of error and how do you manage the customer's expectations of perfection?

 

[Snydo]

If it looks perfect from 10 feet away - it's perfect.

 

[Gino]

Guess it depends on what you want your reputation to be.

 

[bob]

When laying cut vinyl on irregular surfaces I find that using hi grade vinyl with an air egress it can reduce virtually all the wrinkles and bubbles. However, there can be some very small and slight wrinkles. Is having four or five very small wrinkles in about 150 sq ft an acceptable amount of error and how do you manage the customer's expectations of perfection?

Bubbles and their vicious cousins wrinkles are almost always the result of dubious squeegee technique. Error is one thing, being able to perform fundamental sign making tasks properly is yet another. Inability is inexcusable.

 

[jaylem]

concentration

Bubbles and their vicious cousins wrinkles are almost always the result of dubious squeegee technique. Error is one thing, being able to perform fundamental sign making tasks properly is yet another. Inability is inexcusable.

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that wrinkles and bubbles are almost always avoidable given that the installer is using proper squeegee technique. Proper technique as I understand and practice is to pull the squeegee back and forth using overlapping strokes, holding it as flat as possible. During the masking process I squeegee from the center out, during the application process from the center of the hing down.

Am I missing something here, Bob?

 

[Desert_Signs]

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that wrinkles and bubbles are almost always avoidable given that the installer is using proper squeegee technique. Proper technique as I understand and practice is to pull the squeegee back and forth using overlapping strokes, holding it as flat as possible. During the masking process I squeegee from the center out, during the application process from the center of the hing down.

Am I missing something here, Bob?

Maybe you should tell us what you're actually applying on instead of prancing around it.

Is it glass? Then, yes - any wrinkles and/or bubbles are unacceptable.

Is it asphalt, pockmarked with holes? Then yes - small wrinkles or bubbles may be acceptable.

 

[jaylem]

Maybe you should tell us what you're actually applying on instead of prancing around it.

Is it glass? Then, yes - any wrinkles and/or bubbles are unacceptable.

Is it asphalt, pockmarked with holes? Then yes - small wrinkles or bubbles may be acceptable.

I was applying two layers, black shadow with white letters, of 12" tall cut vinyl on a steel cylindrical tanker. The paint surface has minor defects such as small raised pin pricks and slight deformation in the surface smoothness due to exterior and interior welds.

 

[Desert_Signs]

Then I would say there should be no flaws in the vinyl. If you can see the flaws in the trailer through the vinyl that's ok, but the flaws shouldn't be only in the vinyl.

 

[Gino]

I was applying two layers, black shadow with white letters, of 12" tall cut vinyl on a steel cylindrical tanker. The paint surface has minor defects such as small raised pin pricks and slight deformation in the surface smoothness due to exterior and interior welds.

Unless I don't know what a cylindrical tanker is, you got 150 sq ft of 12" tall vinyl on that ?? As mentioned, there should not be any errors on the application process, especially if using air egress vinyl, yet.

 

[mark galoob]

ok...now that we have heard from the gods of the vinyl application process, lets get down to the real folks wayyyyyyyyy down below them...

marks first rule of vinyl application.
1. its not about how good you are, its about how well you can fix your mistakes.

vehicle graphics are not davinci art and if your customers expectations are that it should be the quality of a davinci, then you will never be able to please them anyway.

 

[Snydo]

per·fec·tion
pərˈfekSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: perfection

• the condition, state, or quality of being free or as free as possible from all flaws or defects.
  
  
  What Mark said...honestly it's not hard to lay vinyl perfectly, especially air egress. How big are the wrinkles, is there like loose vinyl flapping in the breeze? or one of those tiny little wrinkles where you stressed the vinyl and it wont quite lay perfectly. A picture would be worth a 1ooo words.
  
  We primarily only do fleet graphics for a handful of small to medium sized companies, and we basically give them a verbal guarantee that it will look perfect from 5 feet away and none that I remember have balked whatsoever at that statement.

 

[jaylem]

nearly undetectable

First, there are no bubbles and if there were those are easy to deal with. Second, the wrinkles that I reffer to are tiny little hair line, half inch imperfections. Normally, I get even the cheapest calendar vinyls to lay flat. I'm probably being more critical of myself then the client since they didn't notice the wrinkles. They are so small you really have to be on top of it, looking for the flaw. Here are some pics I took of the finished job but I'd have to take some close up pics to see the flaws.

 

[Gino]

Looks real nice.

The way you posed your question, was different then the end result. To me, it's a waste using air egress on that. In using air egress, again..... it's almost impossible to have bad results. Therefore, your opening post sent me off track. However, as I stated earlier, I still don't see 150 sq ft of vinyl on that thing. From input, to cut, to weeding, taping, measuring and final application and post heating, I'd say ya have about 4 hours in a truck.

 

[jaylem]

mis-calc

Looks real nice.

The way you posed your question, was different then the end result. To me, it's a waste using air egress on that. In using air egress, again..... it's almost impossible to have bad results. Therefore, your opening post sent me off track. However, as I stated earlier, I still don't see 150 sq ft of vinyl on that thing. From input, to cut, to weeding, taping, measuring and final application and post heating, I'd say ya have about 4 hours in a truck.

13 yards of black plus 11 yards of white = 24 yrds = 72 ft. 24" wide x 72 ft = 144

Damn you work fast, Gino. I had about eight hours into input, to cut, to weeding, taping, measuring and final application and post heating. But, that did include f*** off time gabbing with the well diggers. However, the time spent gabbing was fruitful. Sold two graphic packages to the guys in the shop for their personal vehicles. Bunch of monster truck builders.

 

[Gino]

Well, I guess I stand corrected on several counts. I really thought someone layering would be using cast die cut........ and someone doing two colors on air egress would be using digital printing methods. Never would I think you used two layers of air egress. It still doesn't look anywhere close to 150 sq ft. However, that's up to you how you waste material.

Also, if I give a time frame, that's based on me..... my time or one of our employees. Employee's don't f*ck off, huh ?? Lol

We do quite a bit of some nice sized tri-axles from front to back and our graphics are almost 48" tall at many spots, with stuff all over the place and on the rear. We layer it on, also. We probably might get close 200 sq ft. When we do print..... it's 1/2 that.

If your caps are 12", the other stuff looks to be about 8" or so, with the other stuff around 4".

Anyway, you should probably think about printing that stuff, instead, especially if you're using digital materials.

 

[Craig Sjoquist]

Nice looking job, I see very few around here in Orlando that are that readable & a good image of a brand

 

[jaylem]

less is more

Yeah, I try to keep designs simple and clean without too much clutter. Using size and proximity helps me to create the proper hierarchy which generally achieves a high level of effectiveness.

Yes, I would have love to do all printed graphics versus layering. My business is only a few years old and I currently sub contract out the printing. In this case I found it to be more profitable for me to cut in house and layer the project. When jobs are more than two color I opt to have them printed.

The aforementioned policy will be short lived. I have a 54" VJ Mutoh coming at the end of the month and will start printing my own graphics in-house.

 

[bob]

Yeah, I try to keep designs simple and clean without too much clutter. Using size and proximity helps me to create the proper hierarchy which generally achieves a high level of effectiveness....

Park Avenue and Copperplate? It looks like a refugee from Mainline Embossing circa the 1950's.

 

[jaylem]

design

Park Avenue and Copperplate? It looks like a refugee from Mainline Embossing circa the 1950's.

First, I did not design the logo or choose any of the font styles, other than getting the client to use arial for the contact info versus copperplate. The customer made those decisions prior to my relationship with them. Secondly, you are off the mark a little bit on your font assessment, Bob. Where as the company name looks like park ave, it is not. It is a slight variation of that font style. My only design input was size, proximity, and content. Lastly, a circa 1950 graphic might appropriate for this company. They have been around forever and those font choices could speak to their lineage.

 

[Tony McD]

I've done a couple fuel storage tanks and several tanker trucks.
Did a brand new shiny aluminum tanker truck a couple years ago and it came out nice and smooth.
A couple others were repainted tanks, and not the smoothest to start with with specs of dust in the paint job,
and a run here and there.
Not much you can do about a poor paint job, but it still looks great unless you climb up there and look close.
These were septic trucks and who wants to get that close anyway..lol

If you get a few small bubbles...they'll probably be gone in a day or two of sunshine, wrinkles are probably there to stay.