Experience and thoughts Needed

[jhd]

Long story short - I was hired by a company to produce a back-lit sign that was damaged in a small commerical plaza. Upon inspection of the existing sign cabinet it need to be replaced as well due to unfixable damage and years of band-aids.

The sign is wall mount back-lit sign - is the same size as the existing sign, and is a pan face with the vinyl installed on the inside and back sprayed. I have a signed approval by the client. I went to install the new sign this weekend and upon removal of the existing sign severe water damage was uncovered and I put a halt on the installation.

The tenant contacted the landlord concerning the water damage. The landlord then tells the tenant that the sign needed to be approved.
The sign is tastefully and simply designed to create contrast and be an easy read. The tenant received an email from the landlord that they are not approving the new sign because it has a white background.

I'm looking for thoughts and experience The client understands that this is not my fight, but is looking to me for thoughts on this problem. Has anyone faced this type of experience? I do not know if this is written in the lease and plainly sounds like a personal preference.

 

[SignManiac]

The landlord can dictate the sign requirements, but it should be stated in the tenants lease what they are.

 

[2B]

Not forgetting that the sign must also meet the city codes as well.

 

[signage]

Just because you are replacing a damage sign does not give you the green light! Local sign codes and landlord requirements must be known and meant. Did you look into this before you took on this project?

 

[Mosh]

The landlord can dictate the sign requirements, but it should be stated in the tenants lease what they are.

Agrred! If it is in the lease, the landlord has the final say. I would say it is on the customer, who should have known this.

 

[401Graphics]

yea id say it on the customer now. hopefully you got at least a 50% deposit. tell the customer to call you when they are ready to put it up again.

I had something like this happen recently. Refaced a back lit, noticed the sign had what looked like two shop lights in it and the original sockets weren't being used in the box. I get a call from the customer saying the sign isn't bright enough, I said its because the lights inside are not high output bulbs made for signs. She talks to the landlord, and blames the design (because it was black background with cut out lettering (white). So she has me take it down and do a totally new design that has a light pink background, and i also reface another sign on the building with the exact design and size and light box, except the other light box still has the original high output bulbs. By the time i was done putting the new faces on it was dusk and the signs came on, and sure enough was was nice and bright and the other one was really dim. Landlord finally agreed that it was the lights inside. So because the landlord didn't want to pay for the sign to be fixed properly my customer had to pay for a sign to be refaced twice, plus pay extra to bring my bucket truck out multiple times.

 

[Moze]

Virtually any shopping center, office complex, etc. has existing sign criteria that has been approved by the municipality it's in. Any signage needs to be submitted for both landlord approval as well as to the municipality for permitting.

Nothing that the others haven't said, just reemphasizing. Written approval should have been obtained prior to manufacturing and definitely before installing.

 

[Moze]

Nevermind.

 

[jhd]

All approvals were in place - code, owner, etc. The landlord did not approve the layout of the sign because of a white background. Like I stated earlier, I do not know if the lease requests this or this is new addition that was written in after the owner's lease was signed. Thanks for the feedback and experience. Hopefully this goes smoothly - I received payment in full for the project, so I'm not concerned about this, If the sign was distastefully done then yes, I would understand the landlord not approving it, but because of a white background is a bit much in my opinion.

 

[Jillbeans]

I would use it as a learning experience and next time (even though it's not your job) make sure to ask the client if he has all his bases covered; permits, permissions etc.
Thankfully this client was not an @sshole, just the landlord.
In my township, there are a lot of sign types which are not permitted. A business needed a new sign for their new building. A semi-local company made them a nice main sign which was to have an attached electronic message sign.
These are not allowed here.
Apparently they had not checked with the zoning officer prior to the production/installation of the sign.
There was an empty hole under the main sign literally for months before the message sign was allowed to be installed, after a hearing and presumably a fine.
The client files for the permit here not the sign company.
I try to do my homework as much as possible. I always ask questions first.
Love....Jill

 

[jhd]

all ready chalked this one up to a learning experience.

 

[JTBoh]

Dealing with one right now, that's been going on since AUGUST. Finally near the end.

Essentially, customer sent us corporate images that are in use on all media the company uses. Set up a layout over 28 windows, and we did some mockups for it. Submitted mockups to landlord for final approval... and shot down by the building architect. Has been a long, complicated process, with coordination between us, the client, the client's GA, the landlord, the architect, and the store itself - but finally seeing some results. Now at 32x windows, all at least 48" wide - should be a nice payday.

 

[SD&F]

Thanx for sharing. I think we have all come across similar situations and have worked around it as much as possible to help our customers out. If you received payment in full, then atleast you are protected.....you did not make this error, but it could have cost you.

 

[jhd]

So what's the question then? Seems you know the answer already...

I was looking for similar experiences in this type of situation - I like to try to make my clients experience as smooth as possible.

On another note:

The client did indeed check his lease and signs with white backgrounds are not approved.

 

[J Hill Designs]

Our entire city doesnt allow white backgrounds on lit signage, unless it has blockout vinyl so as to not light up white at night -- "light pollution"

 

[MikePro]

landlord is right and its your job to discuss with both a proper compromise, and fix the sign to follow standards.
hardest part is now you have to decide who's to blame and pay for the new background color: you, for not digging deeper for info/surveying existing signage, or your client for not fully informing you/approving an incorrect sign for production.

standards are in-place as to keep the shopping complex looking uniform. all it takes is one "tastefully designed" sign in a completely different spec. to throw years of planning/maintaining into the trash.

 

[signage]

Also I have come across shopping complexs that all signs are grandfathered and the local township make all drawings stamped by owners engineer!

 

[jhd]

thank you for the feedback.

 

[Gino]

landlord is right and its your job to discuss with both a proper compromise, and fix the sign to follow standards.
hardest part is now you have to decide who's to blame and pay for the new background color: you, for not digging deeper for info/surveying existing signage, or your client for not fully informing you/approving an incorrect sign for production.

standards are in-place as to keep the shopping complex looking uniform. all it takes is one "tastefully designed" sign in a completely different spec. to throw years of planning/maintaining into the trash.

I'm glad someone else recognized this. Your customer is not a sign person or he wouldn't need to come to you. It's your job to explain what he has to do or you have to do it for him/her.

From now on, make sure all your ducks are in a row. Not knowing something and thinking it's persoanl preference would never stand up anywhere in a court of law or just a plain old discussion.

I'm not accusing you of doing anything wrong, but you accepted his money in full, so I would figure it was up to you to make sure everything was copacetic. You could ask to split the cost of making it porper, but if he refused, it would ultimately be your responsibility. Afterall, you're the professional..... right ??