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Need Help Extreme conditions, need help from the experts on this forum

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Hot_and_Dusty

New Member
Greetings from Doha, Qatar, I am the Facilities Manager for a famous theme park here in Doha.

For those who may not know of Qatar, its a neighbor of Saudi Arabia, which I'm sure most have heard of.

We endure extreme weather conditions on most months of the year, say 8 months, when the ambient temperature can reach as high as 116 Deg F, humidity can be extremely high at 93% in the early morning hours and experience frequent sandstorms or high fine sand content in the air during summer.

I have an outdoor facade totaling to approximately 2,600 square meters, of fire retardant aluminum composite panels, exposed to direct sunlight, on which i have the company branding installed.
We used Eco-Solvent ink and UV lamination the last time we replaced the branding stickers. The sticker specs are Cartongraf Polylam Polymeric Vinyl Sticker with Cartongraf Coverall P980S UV lamination

The lamination failed after 1 year, and the ink started to smudge, and the vinyl sticker started cracking after a year and half. As the country falls under Zone 3 according to 3M MCS heatmap regions, we have a problem with getting any manufacturer to provide us any warranty at all. To make make matters worse, the facade is not accessible by any form of mechanized access equipment and neither is erection of scaffolding easy, due to theme park design. There is no provision for cradle facility on the roof, to allow for access to the facade, and the only practical way to reach all areas of the facade is by abseiling down.

I am looking for assistance to identify a suitable printed medium which can be glued onto the facade, by Irata certified abseilers who are not professionals in the field of installation of advertisement banners or PVC stickers. Can anyone suggest something, that would last for at least 3 years?
 

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Signstein

Signstein

New Member
Not exactly an answer to your question, but I have over 10 years of theme park sign experience and in the east coast US at least these types of things are hand painted by scenic artists. I would open up your research to include options outside of printed/laminated signage. Maybe a tensioned banner on a rail system? Some type of projected image? Digital screen?
 
H

Hot_and_Dusty

New Member
Signstein said:
Not exactly an answer to your question, but I have over 10 years of theme park sign experience and in the east coast US at least these types of things are hand painted by scenic artists. I would open up your research to include options outside of printed/laminated signage. Maybe a tensioned banner on a rail system? Some type of projected image? Digital screen?
Click to expand...
Thank you very much for your inputs. I like the ideal of a tensioned banner on a rail system, will research into that. I did consider projection image option but that would be visible only during the night, while we need the image to be viewable during the day as well. Digital screen would need heavy support structure to be fabricated, costs would be very high. I did approach some Chinese manufacturers of flexible LED screen adhesive products that come in a roll, but they did not recommend it for outdoor due to low brightness under strong sunlight.
 
H

Hot_and_Dusty

New Member
weyandsign said:
I agree that it should be painted. But it sounds like you're using cheap vinyl. This one is rated for 3 years in climate zone 3.

Products

www.orafol.com www.orafol.com
Click to expand...
Thanks for the recommendation, i will study this keenly, recommending me a product with 3 years warranty in zone 3 is like showing a thirsty man a well in the middle of a desert.
Yes, painting, like a sort of mural, is looking increasingly attractive, the challenge is to find mural / graffiti artists who are IRATA certified to abseil down by rope, and paint while suspended. The facade height is 25 meters and while i possess a 25 meter reach spider manlift, the theme park attractions do not allow its deployment near the facade
 
U

unclebun

Active Member
If there are anchor points to abseil (rappel) from the roof, then your painter could use a stage and falls or even a rig like window washers use with a large, stable platform.They also make portable rigs to hang the platform from.
sheila.jpg
 
H

Hot_and_Dusty

New Member
unclebun said:
If there are anchor points to abseil (rappel) from the roof, then your painter could use a stage and falls or even a rig like window washers use with a large, stable platform.They also make portable rigs to hang the platform from.
sheila.jpg
Click to expand...
Thanks, the portable rig looks like a good option, i will look into the possibility of buying one from long term maintenance point of view after completing the painting if thats the best way to go.
 
H

Hot_and_Dusty

New Member
weyandsign said:
I agree that it should be painted. But it sounds like you're using cheap vinyl. This one is rated for 3 years in climate zone 3.

Products

www.orafol.com www.orafol.com
Click to expand...
Do you know of any good paint manufacturer that makes flame retardant paint that can be stained easily by the artists, and could withstand extreme heat and high UV content. I cannot find any such paint in this country, and got limited hits when i searched online. I am happy to import the paint from the US or EU
 
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weyandsign

New Member
Hot_and_Dusty said:
Do you know of any good paint manufacturer that makes flame retardant paint that can be stained easily by the artists, and could withstand extreme heat and high UV content. I cannot find any such paint in this country, and got limited hits when i searched online. I am happy to import the paint from the US or EU
Click to expand...
Not sure. In your city try asking QTECH Auto Paints. They look pretty good on google.
 
JBurton

JBurton

Signtologist
I'd recommend something like a tensioned banner frame as well, it would allow much more flexibility to change with different promotions, or seasons, if you do in fact have a winter for a couple of days. You'd just need to design around the framing members, but that should be simple.
 
Kev-O-Rama

Kev-O-Rama

New Member
Hot_and_Dusty said:
Greetings from Doha, Qatar, I am the Facilities Manager for a famous theme park here in Doha.

For those who may not know of Qatar, its a neighbor of Saudi Arabia, which I'm sure most have heard of.

We endure extreme weather conditions on most months of the year, say 8 months, when the ambient temperature can reach as high as 116 Deg F, humidity can be extremely high at 93% in the early morning hours and experience frequent sandstorms or high fine sand content in the air during summer.

I have an outdoor facade totaling to approximately 2,600 square meters, of fire retardant aluminum composite panels, exposed to direct sunlight, on which i have the company branding installed.
We used Eco-Solvent ink and UV lamination the last time we replaced the branding stickers. The sticker specs are Cartongraf Polylam Polymeric Vinyl Sticker with Cartongraf Coverall P980S UV lamination

The lamination failed after 1 year, and the ink started to smudge, and the vinyl sticker started cracking after a year and half. As the country falls under Zone 3 according to 3M MCS heatmap regions, we have a problem with getting any manufacturer to provide us any warranty at all. To make make matters worse, the facade is not accessible by any form of mechanized access equipment and neither is erection of scaffolding easy, due to theme park design. There is no provision for cradle facility on the roof, to allow for access to the facade, and the only practical way to reach all areas of the facade is by abseiling down.

I am looking for assistance to identify a suitable printed medium which can be glued onto the facade, by Irata certified abseilers who are not professionals in the field of installation of advertisement banners or PVC stickers. Can anyone suggest something, that would last for at least 3 years?
Click to expand...
Good morning, From Dallas, Texas!

Many moons ago, I used to be a muralist, graffiti & scenic artist (now in the sign biz) and have worked in numerous types of materials -- from Muslin to Brick walls. I, too, recommend a "banner"/tensioner type approach, using a lightweight fabric like Muslin or Scrim (which has air holes) that can be painted by artists in a large open area, lying flat & stretched and easily editable.

Once finished, it can be rolled up horizontally so the top of the mural is loose and fastened to a framework at the top of your facade and unfurled downward using gravity. Once unfurled, the sides can then be pulled to the sides using a frame/anchor system.

You will need a theatrical company that is used to large set pieces to sew the size backdrop you need. It's definitely a specialty type thing, but nothing new to a theatrical company. Most theatrical/set design companies also sell Nova paint or other theatrical paint, but for your extreme weather conditions, you may want to opt for PPG's exterior paint. They are also used to mandates like fire retardant materials, so they can recommend coatings.

The scenic artists will need to be working in "glazes" instead of heavy coats because it can easily double the weight if they're not careful. Scrim materials have holes in the material for a more diffused look that light can travel through, but it can be used for what you want. The artists will just have to use more intense pigmentation for it to show.

I'm now kind of invested in the outcome, haha, and hope whatever solution you settle on, that you send us follow-up photos!
 
Signscorp

Signscorp

New Member
I think you just need to use a more expensive vinyl and laminate combination. try vehicle grade like 180C from 3M, or MPI 1105 from Avery. Those are rated for 8 and 7 years i believe. With the quantity you are buying, you should be able to speak directly to a rep and get a real warranty.
 
drvinyl

drvinyl

New Member
Australia gets pretty hot i only use Avery 700 Vinyls and don't seem to have any problems, I think the 900 series is the absolute best when it comes to Avery if you are looking for the BEST quality, but usually 700/800 is fine.

3M makes the absolute best vinyl i have used though, that electrocut stuff is so nice to work with.
 
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