Farming out jobs

[Rick]

Oh, I forgot to add... I only design so I send
out bid packages to qualified sign shops all
the time.

Most of these jobs are very sizable, but I
already get paid for managing the project or
sending it out to bid.

I don't mark up, or ask or expect any money
from my vendors. The only thing I require is
a non-compete (and good work) Though
occasional I get a card, candy or Starbucks card
at the end of the year... anything more than that
I would give it back.

 

[TyrantDesigner]

This how ridiculous it is... in Texas, I can't design an electrical
sign... if I do, I have to pay someone with a master electrical
sign license to sign off on it

That non-illuminated foam sign you did? If it was over 500
bucks here, it would have required a license and maybe even
a permit (if the sign was grandfathered in).. yeah, it's pretty bad
but at the same time, I can't afford a $10,000 fine for each infraction
ticket, or thrown in the hoosegow for a day or two cuz I think
the rules suck... and a lot of them do...

It's worse in other area's of texas ... here, temp signs have to have a permit ($35?), and can only be out for a max of 6 months and be on private land only. (except if you're doing political signs ... that is free and have to be gone 30 days after the election) Anything else is a fine. ..... that means coroplast yard signs advertising a business .. can get you fined if you put them along the side of the road.

What's worse is permanent signage. If I take a 4"x4" plexi sign and stick it on a building outside, it falls under permanent sign rules which states I need to be liscensed and bonded at $10,000 or more and have to pull a permit of $90 or 10% of the value of the sign (whichever is more). It's utterly redonkulous the rules in this area for stuff like this. Especially since, if a building owner decides to install the sign ... they don't need to be liscensed, bonded or pull the permit (if code enforcement stops them ... might be a permit). Most of my business is vehicles, banners and other things that don't get perm installed outside ... so I'm fine with that for now. But later when I want to start offering things like sand blasted wood signage and other low impact 3d signage (carved hdu and the such) I will need to basically double my operational cost because of the regulatory b.s. I mean, a simple $300 sandblasted and painted ceder sign on 2 4x4 posts with a $30 install will then have a $90 permit, a $20 charge for my time to pull the permit, and the sign will have to be around $350 to cover the added monthly cost of bonding and insurance required by Amarillo, TX. Not cool.

Either that or I bandit the sign install and risk having code enforcement rip my shop apart with fines.

 

[Joe Diaz]

(except if you're doing political signs ... that is free and have to be gone 30 days after the election)

Don't you just love how political signs have a different set of rules, (usually much more lax). It's almost as if the people writing the rules are writing them to benefit themselves. Hmmm that can't be right.

 

[J Hill Designs]

$300 in sandblasted signage here is like a 6"x18" panel ...

I always add as line item "permit acquisition $250 + city costs (billed at cost)"

makes no difference on my end.

 

[TimToad]

$300 in sandblasted signage here is like a 6"x18" panel ...

I always add as line item "permit acquisition $250 + city costs (billed at cost)"

makes no difference on my end.

$400 per square foot for sandblasted work? In Redwood country no less......

Our powers that be have been in the grips of several neocon dominated city councils in a row now, who all subscribe to the "guvmint can't do anything right" and its anti-business, so what did they do in the last few years?

Despite having a historic and independently owned hotel as the cornerstone of our downtown business district, they approved a huge chain hotel construction project on the outskirts of town near the upcoming mega Wal-Mart they rammed through a few years before that. The Wal-Mart project had been in limbo but is about to start now that the council has voted to relax the environmental regulations regarding rainwater run-off from the proposed multi-acre parking lot and energy efficiency standards that Wal-Mart promised to implement when pitching the store to the locals.

In July, they boosted all permit fees and such and the minimum sign permit fee is now $462 regardless of the value of or type of sign being built. I just wrote the check yesterday for one for a simple, small business park directory monument sign on MDO costing $1500 not including the $462 for the permit. Our client is seething about the cost of the permit, but her tenants are screaming for a sign out front. I just heard a story from a customer who went in to get a permit for a small interior of the house remodel of his bathroom valued at $3,000. The permit was $2,500.

So much for being "business friendly" That is unless its the world's largest retailer or one of the world's largest hotel chains.

On the primary subject, we know our limitations and while trying to fully serve our clientele, we don't hesitate to pass a job along to a better matched colleague no strings attached. Its usually only the electrical stuff, and we do ask that they at least let us do the faces or other non-electrical elements that are in the project. No man is an island in this business and the more cooperation you foster, the more it comes back to you. We have plenty of other commercial shops in the area that won't give us the time of day in terms of camaraderie, but hey, this isn't a popularity contest if others can't see the value in being on good terms. The outwardly hostile ones are also the ones that will run a "special" on banners for $4 per square foot and then never raise the prices back to normal, further driving the overall market downward forever.

At the very least, knowing and being on good terms with your competition makes it easier for everyone to network about pricing, regulations, etc..

 

[Gino]

Your best bet would be to visit some of your local shops, strike up a friendship and see who you can align yourself with when these kinda potential jobs pop up. We do about 95% of our work in-house, but like mentioned, sometimes sensitive time restraints or bottle-necked schedules will conflict, forcing us to do something with someone else. Ahead of time is when you discuss percentages, finders fees and who's responsible for what.

As for permits, I don't see anything wrong with the present permitting procedure, except for one thing..... the people in charge, generally don't know what they're doing.

I'm sure most of you have a bad taste in your mouth with permits and the crazy methods/reasons for them. Did you know that back in the day, what most people here don't like to hear, obtaining permits and licensing were a piece of cake ?? Why ?? Because everyone was basically already permitted to do their line of work. What this means is, for the most part whether you were union or not, you had to have certain procedures and credentials in line just to be in business. This meant, when you applied for a permit, the codes guy would ask you a coupla questions, you answered them and he issued you a permit to do the job. You were already registered at City Hall in whatever towns you did business in and that was it. Move to just 20 years ago and you had so many people setting up shop, just not as sign shops, but plumbers, electricians, home remodelers and lotsa other things going out, doing work and messing things up. Getting electrocuted, not properly securing things in or down, hurting pedestrians, ruining property and all kinds of other things. When addressed to fix it or make it right, they would thumb their nose at authority and tell 'em to sue them. Too many of them to do that, so they made the laws more strict on those of us who still obey the law. As more and more people started getting into business for themselves, the problem just got so bad, they had to make rules for every type situation that could happen along, thus we are being scrutinized to death. The other part is, if you don't have proper insurance and other things on your side, the municipality is responsible for frivolous lawsuits that might take place, so to protect themselves from these hacks, more laws have to appear on the books. Ya wonder why you need an engineers' drawing for certain projects ?? Because the average hack can't afford to do that, so it eliminates those lowballers right out the gate.

In a round about way, many of us have created this very predicament in all walks of life. Just look around you and see how many laws, taxes and penalties we pay for things today, that were practically unheard of 30 or 40 years ago.

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