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FastSigns and Signs365 and Gemini

jeffkics

Sign Says
I have to ask, if anyone knows, does FastSigns get special pricing with Signs365 and Gemini?

I have lost jobs to my local FS, and know the customer has gotten 365 banners, or Gemini letters installed, on the same jobs that I have priced using them. I usually mark up 25 to 30% on them so I am not sure how they are getting these jobs. Maybe I smell. IDK. Just curious if they get special pricing more than just the regular sign guys.

Anyone else notice this?
 

Pauly

Printrade.com.au
i wouldn't think so. (someone will know more than me)
but look at it this way.
The client is getting the exact same product for a different price. cheapest price will win.
But the client doesn't know you're both outsourcing the work. So the client may just want the cheapest price and if your competitor is using the same trade printer as you, their markup may only be 10%. they win the job, keeps them happy and client comes back for more.
Only speculating as there are many reasons why these things happen.
 

jeffkics

Sign Says
i wouldn't think so. (someone will know more than me)
but look at it this way.
The client is getting the exact same product for a different price. cheapest price will win.
But the client doesn't know you're both outsourcing the work. So the client may just want the cheapest price and if your competitor is using the same trade printer as you, their markup may only be 10%. they win the job, keeps them happy and client comes back for more.
Only speculating as there are many reasons why these things happen.
Agree,

So a 10% markup on 365 and gemini the way to go?

What is everyone marking there's up on these? maybe my 30% is way to high?
 

Pauly

Printrade.com.au
Agree,

So a 10% markup on 365 and gemini the way to go?

What is everyone marking there's up on these? maybe my 30% is way to high?
That's entirely you choice how much you markup outsourced work.
For example, we don't do labels. but now and then we'd get clients asking for labels and they're long term clients. So we'd put 10% on it and call it a day.
All i did was ordered online which took me 5 minutes. labels came and my client picked them up.

If you need to outsource, but physically do something, like artwork or installation. Then charge for that & small margin on the prints.


I'm also curious for other input too.
 

Notarealsignguy

Arial - it's almost helvetica
Who said they beat you over price? Maybe they were higher but the customer saw something in using fastsigns that they did not with you? There is something to be said about the national presence and brand identity with a franchise, that is a big reason that people buy into them. Perceived quality, reliability, corporate recourse for a poor job, stability etc etc.
 

unclebun

Active Member
Trying to get business by racing other people to mark things up less and less is what's killing what's left of the sign profession. So is considering that "I didn't do anything but a half hour of layout and uploading so I'll just make $50 on this order for $1000 of banners". Owners of retail stores don't do anything but place an order for merchandise, and they mark things up 3x to 5x the wholesale price. Even though you don't have the overhead of owning the printer and the finishing equipment, you have to price the finished product as if you did.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
If you wanna know what's happening, simply go to the place you're talking about and ask them in person, like face to face and ask for their help ?? You'd like to know what makes them buy their stuff at FS, instead of you and ask them to be brutally honest. I don't understand how you know, or think you know, you lost it to price, and price alone ??
 

Notarealsignguy

Arial - it's almost helvetica
If you wanna know what's happening, simply go to the place you're talking about and ask them in person, like face to face and ask for their help ?? You'd like to know what makes them buy their stuff at FS, instead of you and ask them to be brutally honest. I don't understand how you know, or think you know, you lost it to price, and price alone ??
I used to do that all of the time and it works. It's a real kick in the you know what when you find out your price was lower but they have a longer established relationship with the other vendor or the owners are friends or whatever. You spent your time doing the research and giving them a quote, find out why you didn't get it. Some people just get 3 prices as a formality. They will call you every time but never give you the business. Other people will get multiple prices and tell their preferred vendor what the low one was. This is why it is good practice to not go around throwing numbers at people that have not invested any time into the transaction.
 

jeffkics

Sign Says
Yeah, I hear you all. I just wonder if they give them better prices. Kind of like Staples too, they have the same displays up in their stores that 365 sent me. You gotta think they have "special" pricing
 

rjssigns

Active Member
Formula stores(Staples, FastSigns etc...) will usually get a better price due to consistent volume of any given product.
The discount can be specified in a contract. You guarantee "X" volume you get this discount. Can't do that volume the price goes back to what everyone else pays.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Most of the time, when I give answers or recommendations on this site, it's because, either I or someone I know well, has done these things and they work.

Doing this 49 years has some advantages. The main thing I've learned over the years is..... I really like the sign business, both the old ways and the new ways......... it's the people that make it a b!tch..... but I guess that's any business.

I was in Walmart on Saturday looking for a particular item. I looked up and down where ya'd think it would be. I covered pretty much one half of the store. Finally saw a worker. Asked her where I could find electric stainless steel frying pans ?? She just kept walking. I asked her again, almost directly in front of me. She looked at me and shook her head, no. I repeated it again and she pointed to her name badge and said something in a language, I have no f*ckin' clue what she said. I didn't recognize one syllable. She started mumbling something and I just looked at her and said, what the f*ck are you working in this store for, if you can't speak f*ckin' English ?? She smiled and started walking away. My wife was angry that I spoke those foul words and I said, what's it matter, she can't understand anything. Walked down the aisle and found another worker, this guy had a mask on up to his eyes. I addressed him and he kept walking. I yelled to him and he turned around and said something hard to understand, but I knew it was spanish and he motioned that he doesn't speak any English. I just laughed and told my wife, let's get the f*ck outta this place. It's like little havana here. Walked out the door and the guy who makes sure you're not stealing anything said something to me in spanish. I can't go shopping in my own town, anymore. So, y'all can use that tidbit of information, too, unless you speak multiple languages. Stay the F*CK outta Walmart if you need help.
 

CanuckSigns

Active Member
It most likely wasn;t a pricing issue, FS has quite a bit of overhead that most shops don't, I know corporate takes 6%-8% of the top each month, plus FS dictates that your shop must be in a high traffic retail area where rent is $$$

The local FS here is clueless, no prior experience before starting the business, she has had to remortgage her house a few times so far to keep the business afloat (she orders the occasional sign from me so we talk)

Do not mark up your outsourcing any less than 30%, it's a surefire way to go bankrupt if you aren't careful.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
By the way...... I thought everybody knew. Fast Signs, Signarama, Instant Signs and all those other franchise shops get really nice breaks in pricing from certain vendors. That's part of the franchise thing. You hafta buy..... or should be buying from authorized vendors to receive particular discounts. They have buying power and have negotiated pricing with large distributors. If we give you umpteen millions of dollars worth of business a year, we want a substantial discount. That's a point they bring up, when you signing the franchise papers.
 

Notarealsignguy

Arial - it's almost helvetica
How big can the discount possibly be? I am sure they have some discount pricing arranged with many vendors but selling to FastSigns isn't the same as selling to someone like Home Depot. I also bet you that the vendors that they do have setup, have to pay a fee or percentage of sales to corporate to be on their list. The discount is probably small but makes the franchisees feel like they got some value in the deal.
 

CanuckSigns

Active Member
How big can the discount possibly be? I am sure they have some discount pricing arranged with many vendors but selling to FastSigns isn't the same as selling to someone like Home Depot. I also bet you that the vendors that they do have setup, have to pay a fee or percentage of sales to corporate to be on their list. The discount is probably small but makes the franchisees feel like they got some value in the deal.
I agree, If there are any discounts from these suppliers, it wouldn't be much. I know FS corporate talks about getting preferred pricing from suppliers like Grimco etc. but I know from speaking with sales reps at these companies that the discount is the same as everyone else gets. When you log into Grimco's website and pull up something, it will say something like "regular price $350, your price $190" that's the same "discount" that FS shops get, the same as any other shop with an account.
 

jeffkics

Sign Says
I have a bit of a gripe with 365, as I am sure most do, but they allow etsy business to use them. I have a girl who runs an etsy in my town and she sells banners from them. thats frustrating to see too.

how many licks does it take to get to the center... i guess is my answer to this question ;)
 

MNT_Printhead

Working among the Corporate Lizard People
How big can the discount possibly be? I am sure they have some discount pricing arranged with many vendors but selling to FastSigns isn't the same as selling to someone like Home Depot. I also bet you that the vendors that they do have setup, have to pay a fee or percentage of sales to corporate to be on their list. The discount is probably small but makes the franchisees feel like they got some value in the deal.
Back in 2003/04 I worked at a large shop in Dallas that had a deal with FS corporate to give a discount of 10% to their franchises.
 

CanuckSigns

Active Member
I have a bit of a gripe with 365, as I am sure most do, but they allow etsy business to use them. I have a girl who runs an etsy in my town and she sells banners from them. thats frustrating to see too.

how many licks does it take to get to the center... i guess is my answer to this question ;)
If someone with an etsy shop is a direct competitor to you, you need to reevaluate your business model, provide something that they can't. I couldn't tell you the last time I made a banner for this exact reason, there is no money in it and online places like vistaprint have allowed end users to buy banners for pretty much wholesale prices. But it has gotten rid of the bottom feeder clients and allowed me to really focus on higher profit clients and make sure I'm giving them the time they deserve.
 
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