Few questions RE: HP Printer Vs Roland.

[John.]

Hey All, its been some time since I've been on these boards, I need to get my Paid Sub back .

Ok, so I am just now getting back into business for myself after a 2 year hiatus (Travel, Life, Etc.) I sold all my equipment previously which consisted of a Roland SP-540v & a GX-24 - This time I'm considering going to HP, however there is a few things I just can't find the information online regarding. Simple questions a phone call can answer however I'd like a run down before I contact a rep so I know if they're BS'ing or telling the truth.

I'm looking at a HP L25500 (2nd Hand), however I'd really like to get e Latex 330 But can't afford new and can't find a 2nd hand unit.

I have gathered I can print on all the same materials as the Roland? (I hope I'm correct)

Are the HP printers as economical?

Hows servicing, printheads, etc?

Print & Cut? I assume I'll need a plotter that can read registration marks? What would you recommend?

A big part of my business is decals, is it worth going to the HP for this? or should I stick with Roland?

Thanks for any replies in advance.

Regards,
John.

 

[nailonsignz]

Personally, having used Roland SP 540 and currently using a HP Z6100, Id stick with Roland, HP's are not industrial!

 

[nate]

Personally, having used Roland SP 540 and currently using a HP Z6100, Id stick with Roland, HP's are not industrial!

You do realize you're comparing two completely different technologies, and then making an assumption about a whole company?

 

[DravidDavid]

Roland hands down.

 

[kanini]

We use both and the print&cut Roland Versacamms are great if you run a lot of unlaminated decals that are contour cut. If you run a lot of laminated stuff or banners etc. I would go with a printer+separate cutter, since you have more room to grow then (your printer isn't tied up with cutting jobs).
The HP is faster and perfect if you run longer jobs but if you frequently change medias and only short runs I'd suggest Roland Versacamm.
I would also recommend you to see both printers in action (since you have experience with Roland you know that one) and consider who has service techs closer to you.

Have you looked at the L26500/L260, a newer model with some updates and can be found 2nd hand, especially now with the new 360 model out.

So to try and answer your questions:
Yes you can print on almost all materials Roland can and vice versa. The latex is better on paper products, uncoated products, wallpaper etc. but may have trouble with some materials you've run on the Roland due to the heat it applies to the material. Today almost any vinyl is also latex compatible so it's easy to switch to a suitable material, check your suppliers catalogue.

The printheads are easy to change yourself and won't generally give you problems unless they are defective from new and then they are warranted by HP. I think the ink costs are cheaper on the HP but then you have maintenance kits that needs to be changed so I'd say for us the running costs are the same if not a hair cheaper on the HP for heavy coverage prints.

We run Wasatch with the HP, not as easy as Versaworks but it's OK. It can print marks for a lot of different cutters, we're getting a Summa S2 this week so I don't know if that's a good cutter yet, but I've heard a lot of good stuff about Summa.

Good luck with your investment and happy printing!

 

[sym600]

Versacamm latex

Hi,

i need to change the printhead of my versacamm vs-640 and i would like to know if its possible to install latex inks on it and what else i have to change on it?

 

[John.]

Thanks for all the replies guys!

We use both and the print&ci....

.....estment and happy printing!

Thanks Kanini, I really want a Printer and separate cutter to continue printing whilst laminating, the de/out gassing of the ecosolvent used to hold up production when doing so, and the instant drying times of the Latex look impressive.

My next question was regarding RIP software with the HP, but you've answered that too!, so again Thanks!

All the best,
John.

 

[player]

Hi,

i need to change the printhead of my versacamm vs-640 and i would like to know if its possible to install latex inks on it and what else i have to change on it?

Hi! I think it is better for you to start your own thread about this topic. When you ask a totally different question on someone's thread it is not usually appreciated. I have read a few comments about this topic. You should try searching as well. Not too many doing it yet, but there are companies around who do offer this conversion. There is one in Germany if I am not mistaken.

Anyhow post your own thread and you will likely get an answer or two. A member named BikerScout is knowledgeable, and probably Artbot as well.

 

[neil_se]

I've got both and as much as I love my Latex, I think the Roland is better for short-run stickers. It'll finish short prints much quicker (due to the latex warm up time) and it's easier to feed short/narrow materials. Print-cutting unlaminated stickers in one step also saves time.

If you're not likely to be changing materials much and can nest multiple jobs into longer or overnight print runs then the Latex would do great job. No out-gassing and minimal maintenance is ace

 

[Dennis422]

I used to have Mutoh Falcon 48 solvent printer. I'm a small home based shop that does not print much. Sometimes even a week between the jobs (I do embroidery and screen printing too and that fills up most of my time)
With that set-up, solvent inks were pain.
Now, with Mutoh sold and used HP L25500 bought, life is much easier. Got the latex few weeks ago, had some issues with RIP and hat to switch from Onyx to Flexi 11, but now the printer finally runs.
So far, in my case, I'm probably never going back to Solvent inks. Love the fact that i should not have issues it the printer sits for a week or so, no outgassing or Solvent smell.
Bad thing, warm up time. Waste of a little material every time you start (You have to advance the material a 5-6" so it will not get caught by a print head) and I do not see how van you load scraps, like last 2-3 feet of the roll to be printed.
And the heat, it gets a bit toasty in my basement

All printers have pros and cons, but im my case, latex has more pros than cons over a solvent printer.

BTW, can not wait to be able to afford a new 360 (or 460, they will probably come out with the new new by the time I buy again)

Good luck

 

[John.]

Thanks guys!

I have my feelers out trying to secure a SP-540v.

I will definitely be getting a HP Latex printer though, as soon as I see one pop up For Sale, I will get it.

Thanks again.

 

[danno]

While it is true that latex is dry and could be laminated as soon as it is done printing, we have done some studies that suggest it needs to outgas just like any other type of printing.

 

[Signed Out]

While it is true that latex is dry and could be laminated as soon as it is done printing, we have done some studies that suggest it needs to outgas just like any other type of printing.

Care to elaborate?

 

[P Wagner]

While it is true that latex is dry and could be laminated as soon as it is done printing, we have done some studies that suggest it needs to outgas just like any other type of printing.

In the event that the ink is incompletely cured inside of the printer's curing unit, the ink will take a very long time to dry at room temperatures (potentially days at normal ambient temperatures). This can only be sped up by use of a heat gun.

Ink that is incompletely cured can appear to be oily with ink transfer possible. In this case, laminating immediately would be a problem.

Obviously, it is highly desirable to get the settings dialed in for each media so the ink is completely cured inside of the printer. This is typically done through a combination of temperature settings, pass counts, ink limits/ restrictions, and other firmware tools (inter-pass delay for example), for each media that is used in production.

 

[danno]

In the event that the ink is incompletely cured inside of the printer's curing unit, the ink will take a very long time to dry at room temperatures (potentially days at normal ambient temperatures). This can only be sped up by use of a heat gun.

Ink that is incompletely cured can appear to be oily with ink transfer possible. In this case, laminating immediately would be a problem.

Obviously, it is highly desirable to get the settings dialed in for each media so the ink is completely cured inside of the printer. This is typically done through a combination of temperature settings, pass counts, ink limits/ restrictions, and other firmware tools (inter-pass delay for example), for each media that is used in production.

Nicely put. We usually have to recalibrate with the changing of the seasons. They do tell me that the 360 & the 3000 is better than the L26500 and LX800 that we have in our shop.

 

[nailonsignz]

You do realize you're comparing two completely different technologies, and then making an assumption about a whole company?

No where have I compared any technologies! and yes if you take what I said out of context then you could assume that, but any person reading what I wrote in a thread about inkjet printers would know that I was comparing the build of Roland and HP inkjet printers... Not companies as a whole....

 

[nate]

No where have I compared any technologies! and yes if you take what I said out of context then you could assume that, but any person reading what I wrote in a thread about inkjet printers would know that I was comparing the build of Roland and HP inkjet printers... Not companies as a whole....

That's incorrect. You can't compare an eco-sol printer to an aqueous one, and then tell the world HP's aren't industrial. You're comparing a printer meant for indoor POP that has little ability to do outdoor graphics with a machine that's more tailored to doing so.

Personally, we've adopted a full HP Latex line for all of our roll to roll.

 

[ProColorGraphics]

Having started with a Roland, and now running 2 HP L260's, I would highly recommend the HP Latex. I just like everything about them a lot more. Like it was mentioned, you would not regret looking for a used L260 instead of the L25500. Again, I have had both, and the L260 has a lot of nice improvements. The new take up system alone is worth it. Maintenance is easy, consumables are not very expensive and you don't have to do the daily cleaning. Also with the HP, if you have a nasty head strike or some other failure, worst case is $600 for all new print heads, and you put them in yourself.

For cutting, I will only recommend Summa cutters. I had TERRIBLE luck with the Graphtec I had. There is a reason the top Summa cutters cost more, they work!

 

[DougWestwood]

Roland vs HP

Hey All,

I have run HP 28500, 104" wide, and also the Roland VS-640, 63" wide.
(And OCE GT 250, Daytona flatbed, Mutohs, Epsons, etc, etc)

HPs are much more delicate with material profiles. Slight changes can widely affect your prints.
We had ours in a separate, temp-controlled room, with material stored there too, and it seemed to get past all the temperature issues.
Print heads are easy to change, and didn't need it that often> I think I changed two, out of six, in the 18 months I was there.
Needed two of their "maintenance kits" approx $150, with filters, hoses, etc.

The Roland is also a cutter, so you lose a printer when you need to cut. Our shop is small, so that is OK for us.
It has removable wheels to guide the material, which sometimes fall out of line and stops the printhead.
Other than that, Roland seems to be a good little machine, great on banners and vinyl, too. The Roland RIP software,
VersaWorks is also very easy to use, and doesn't seem to crash as often as ONYX.

Have not had any problems with either using too much ink. Roland needs more cleaning than the HP, which I never hand-cleaned,
just used the cleaner program in the unit itself.

Good Luck! Post here again if you need any further info.
Doug - Vancouver