Firing a customer....Mixed emotions.

[artsnletters]

Got off the phone with a customer who i've done a medium amount of work for over the years. Lettered trucks, designed flyers, cards and helped with marketing ideas now and again. He recently changed his DBA to " Properrty Builders Conncepts & Maintenance". (mispelled for a reason stated below) Asked me about doing a logo or at least getting the ball rolling. Prior to this name choice, my idea was to refer him to Dan Antonelli and let Dan's team design a logo for him that would reflect his business focus, which happens to be doing Clean-ups. Trash-outs, Maintenance and basic Rehabs for repo or distressed bank owned properties. I told him IMO, his new name was extremely vague and didn't focus on what his business actually was....He got pissed...said name is in stone has a LLC filed and thats it! More background....when i've lettered his trucks...he expressly says..."I want it subtle"....which i design accordingly....next comment "you cant see my trucks lettering from far away". He has someone involved with him in directing his marketing moves and generally they run 180 degrees from my train of thought (Less is More- Simplify messages to get better bang for your buck and Focus focus focus).
Bottom line: He got butt-hurt, i felt like his name choice was simply going to cripple his marketing strategies (what ever they may be...) and whatever i come up with Logo wise will eventually fail along with it. Part of me (the smaller part) says i shoulda kept my mouth shut and took his money (and really it isn't THAT much-for all the BS) and did the job. The other part said "...maybe whoever is directing your marketing effort and blowing sunshine up your a$$. you ought to have them do your logo and marketing program.

Sorry for just such a long winded post but either way i got a little fired up about it. Right or wrong, what's done is done. Comments, Opinions? I'm an Idiot?

Tim

 

[Gino]

I think we’ve all been in your position before and it hurts. I still have customers that I have to keep my mouth shut because of their designer’s poor layout skills or over use of out dated elements.

We just did some signs for an agency in town that boasts of having some of the area’s highest awards for best work and their ability actually sucks big time.

You’re the one that has to sleep at night and if giving this guy the boot, then good for you. If you feel with a little pain on your part, you could’ve kept him happy and still made a buck…. and could still sleep…. well, too bad.

In the last few years, I do find myself eating more crap and taking more chit from people because the professionalism seems to have dwindled down a bit. The high goals or bars just aren’t there and I truly believe it’s because so many hacks in this field are doing such a lousy job… the norm has just started excepting poor quality and workmanship. You have to roll with the punches sometimes.

I would still hold my ground when designing my own stuff, but if customers want to supply me with crap… someone is going to eventually do it. I just don’t let anyone know I did some of the stuff that passes through our doors. Is that lowering our standards ?? Basically no, I’m giving them what they want. My attitude is…. I can’t correct the world, but I can try to fix as much as I can without going out of business.

 

[Malkin]

Eh, sometimes you can't work past someones attitude, though it helps if you don't display one.

Also, bear in mind that someday in the future if he google's that name, this thread might pop up.

 

[artsnletters]

Eh, sometimes you can't work past someones attitude, though it helps if you don't display one.

Also, bear in mind that someday in the future if he google's that name, this thread might pop up.

I realize i matched the attitude of the customer. For whatever reasons...he and I don't communicate exceptionally well which leads to headaches. He can be cheap one day and generous the next. I personally thing when branding yourself to the general public, it pays to be concise and descriptive when coming up with your name, which his is neither. I feel if i design something i don't want do design with one hand tied behind my back.
Maybe i should modify the name for google purposes....
As far as Dan Antonelli goes, his work speaks for itself. I would have referred him if the guy had a little more idea of what a quality logo design by a professional actually costs. I really don't think he had $1000 and up available (to start) for a marketing program. I've been trying to sell him on this for a while. Farming the logo to Dan , while me being able to do the truck lettering and wholesale printing. A win - win IMO. Maybe it was just a bad day and i should have just bit my tongue. I guess i'll just wait and see what happens...
Tim

 

[Jillbeans]

Hey at least you tried.
Sometimes it just isn't worth it.
I am about to fire three clients, one of whom I've had for over 12 years.
The first, I am sick of having to chase my money, and I finally managed to sell them their logo.
The other was great at first (an organization) but every job they take longer to pay and I think their secretary may be mishandling their funds.
The third is an idiot I aquired on a cold call one winter. I referred them to a franchise.
Sounds like your particular client will never believe in your common sense because you are just a "sign guy".
I think most of us know marketing and design better than marketers and designers.
You want to help, but they don't want your help.
Good luck.
Love.....Jill

 

[Malkin]

We once had a misunderstanding over an extra $58 on a bill lead to the boss telling the customer that he was free to go somewhere else. The guy took great offense and told me later that he would never be back.

In your case I think you're probably better off.

 

[JR's]

on a cold call one winter

thats funny, no pun intended.

;-}

 

[threeputt]

Seems to me, just me, that you're overly hung up on something that's clearly none of your business. If your job is to create a logo, then do so from the cards you've been dealt. How he arrived at that corny business name is not relevant. (not discounting the things you say about marketing, concise, clear message and all that - you're absolutely correct!)

Second thought is you mention mixed emotions. My take on this is once you decide something, go with it. Don't second guess, Monday morning quarterback yourself to death. Do it, it's done. Wash it off.

We've all had these types of clients. If there is no respect there, then every job is a tough tug of war job. Hate those.

Business is a trust/confidence thing. Has to be mutual. Dump the client if you can afford to do it.

 

[tintguy31794]

I'm pretty good at gritting my teeth and taking the money... I've only fired one customer. If anything he should respect your honesty. It is your opinion and he asked for it...he shouldn't hold it against you.

 

[GypsyGraphics]

It is your opinion and he asked for it...he shouldn't hold it against you.

When a client asks you what you think of their chosen name... tread lightly! Ask questions before you answer and if you have nothing but negative things to say, you better be watching their reaction and be sensitive enough to know when to zip it!

Often they only want you to tell them their name is the greatest name you ever heard!

Just had to do a business card layouts for a new client who had some t-shirts done and now wants that image to be their new logo. IT'S BAD... essentially a visual collection of every design mistake in one image. I tested the waters with a subtle correction... "what do you say we have the car facing into the logo. Not only does it work nicely visually but if we do that, see how the car no longer touch the Brush Scripted arched text." Oops... seems every aspect is set in stone, or in this case cotton... "oh, we can't do that, we already had the shirts printed." And the correct answer as i accept their order for 20 sets of business cards... "you go it."

Sometimes telling someone their name or logo is bad, amounts to telling them their baby is ugly.

 

[SignManiac]

I personally can't stand looking at ugly babies for very long! BaBuy.

 

[tintguy31794]

lol I'm so happy knowing i'm not the only person dealing with this.^

 

[letterman7]

You can't decide for a customer whether his business name sucks or not - that's not your call. If he's been loyal over the years and paid on time, offer your opinion if he asks for it - don't volunteer it since it'll create issues (which, apparently, it did). Stick to your job and do your best to represent the client. The only time I've ever fired a client (and they came back years later with their tail between their legs) was due to very slow payment and running me all over the county to spec items which they took somewhere else.

 

[mikefine]

I agree with Letterman7; he hit my opinion right on the button.


But if you feel inclined to provide your opinion when not asked -- there is a simple technique you can use.

And that is to ask permission before you start. And that might be something like: "Would you be interested in some free feedback regarding your new name. Are you sure, because you might not like what I have to say?"

With permission, the client retains a sense of control and is not put on the defensive -- which I have a suspicion you may have inadvertently done.

 

[chopper]

you can always take the money and run,
that is the easiest thing to do it requires no conscience, I have gone both ways on this situation, but I find in the end that it was better to speak my mind than to enter into something that I would regret, ( I do not like to have my name associated with crap) because when some one see it or the client tells some one you did it and it is crap you cannot undo that bad advertisement or word of mouth and in the end it will kill you ...
//chopper

 

[visual800]

I myself have gone both ways. it's worked in one and backfired on the other. This just just happened last week on some ugly-ass art some chick did and she loved it. I refused to do it, i was embarassed for her.

I cant say I leaned anyhting from either situations but if it ugly as hell Im propbably going to say something. i just dont understand how some people can see ugly crap and nice stuff and not see the difference.

let this prick monster go

 

[mark in tx]

Don't let the bastards get you down.

 

[binki]

we have tried to fire 3 problem customers but they keep agreeing to our conditions and price increases.

 

[Jillbeans]

GG is soo correct.
You must be extremely careful with suggestions.
And I am going to start practicing Mike's suggestion.

 

[Perks]

Maybe just contact him again and apologize and see if you can interest him in putting together a proposal. Work with his marketing(graphic designer)team in the role of production and service only. It seems to me you are doing your best to help your customers business. Less personal. Get the money.