First time buyer questions - looking at Mimaki JV150-160

[DigiDude]

I'm looking to get my first digital printer (I will also be purchasing a laminator and cutter, as I currently have neither of these). My budget is $40,000 - $50,000, I will be creating decals, wraps, basic signage, POP, photo prints, and wall coverings. I'm currently researching Mimaki, Epson, and HP. For anyone who has experience with Mimaki, can you help me answer some basic questions that I have about the JV150 series printers?

1) Who is a good, reputable seller of Mimaki that will do a great job setting up and installing the JV150-160, and who also has excellent after-the-sale customer service if something goes wrong?

2) What is required for basic, routine maintenance of the JV150-160 and associated maintenance costs? In specific, how often and how much time will it take per week to maintain the JV150-160? Also, how much ink will regularly be wasted for maintenance, and what other consumables are involved in the maintenance of the JV150-160? Please keep in mind that I'm new to this business, so it's quite likely that initially the machine won't be used but a few days a week until I build up my book.

3) What is the cost of ink per sq. ft using this machine? Or, how many ml of ink is used by the JV150-160 to print on 1 sq. ft. of SAV?

4) Color gamut .... will 8 color Mimaki SS21 inks get me close to a Pantone 021 C and Pantone 368 C, Or should I look for 3rd party inks to accomplish bright colors?


Thanks!
Jason

 

[BigfishDM]

I sell many many Mimaki machines for Dye Sub, for what you are doing, you should be looking at Latex. It will save you alot of headache! This is your first printer? If you are dead set on Mimaki then I can help also, I think we should have a phone conversation. Feel free to reach out, I have seen it all 714-878-7989 I am Josh.

 

[Solventinkjet]

1) Depends on where you are located. All Mimaki dealers are required to install the machine and train the end user or hire Mimaki to do it for them. You want to go to a dealer that has a tech on staff. If you are in the Colorado area check out Signage Specialist (Disclaimer: That is out parent company.)

2) Daily Maintenance takes about 5 minutes and requires a lint free swab and cleaning solution which are both cheap items. Most people don't do daily maintenance and do more of an every other day or twice a week schedule and they do fine. Once a month you take a look at the bottom of the head and clean up and ink build up around the edges. Once every 6 months or so you will need to change the wiper which cost about $6 and every year you will want to change the cap top, cap top sponges and dampers which runs about $225. The machine will turn on about every hour and run what is called a refresh. It basically spits out a few picoliters of ink from the head to keep it from clogging. By doing a refresh instead of a full cleaning cycle like other printers in the same class, it wastes much less ink.

3) The same as pretty much every solvent based machine. Depending on coverage anywhere from $0.10 per square foot to $0.30 per square.

4) Color gamut has everything to do with how much effort you want to put into doing it correctly. Most people just use the color profiles that come with the machine and do fine. If you want to hit a specific color, you have to have custom profiles made or make them yourself. Color is one of the harder things to understand as a newbie and even a lot of people who have been in the business for a long time have no clue about it. I would also recommend just going with the CMYKx2 setup. I have a customer who has both an 8 color and 4 color setup and they both look exactly the same as far as output. A machine could probably tell the difference but humans can't. The CMYKx2 setup is not only faster but you don't have to worry about your orange and light black expiring all the time because they almost never get used! Plus with CMYKx2 when you run out of a color it just switches to the other one which means you virtually never run out of ink during a print. All CMYK based inks are going to be in about the same range so ink doesn't actually affect the brightness of colors the way you think it does. The profiles are what handles that.

 

[ewded]

Why not buy a CJV150 it has a built in cutter. Separate cutter makes sense if you buy multiple machines in my opinion.

2. none daily, 1x wipe in two weeks (but even then it seems unnecessary as everything is pretty clean). - it 'refreshes' itself as Vander said hourly using 1 drop of ink and makes a cleaning every 48hours using 12cc, so you can leave it for months without printing and it'll be fine.

3. average

4. 8 colors will not widen the gamut as far as I can tell (especially not the green in your question) but it'll print better quality. Just send your test file to a seller - they'll make a sample for you. The quality of the cmyk setup is more than good, I'm thinking switching from 8 colors to 2x cmyk for the speed factor.

Latex, it's grainy as hell, especially on light colors, just saying. But you should get a sample and decide it yourself.

 

[DigiDude]

1) Depends on where you are located. All Mimaki dealers are required to install the machine and train the end user or hire Mimaki to do it for them. You want to go to a dealer that has a tech on staff. If you are in the Colorado area check out Signage Specialist (Disclaimer: That is out parent company.)

2) Daily Maintenance takes about 5 minutes and requires a lint free swab and cleaning solution which are both cheap items. Most people don't do daily maintenance and do more of an every other day or twice a week schedule and they do fine. Once a month you take a look at the bottom of the head and clean up and ink build up around the edges. Once every 6 months or so you will need to change the wiper which cost about $6 and every year you will want to change the cap top, cap top sponges and dampers which runs about $225. The machine will turn on about every hour and run what is called a refresh. It basically spits out a few picoliters of ink from the head to keep it from clogging. By doing a refresh instead of a full cleaning cycle like other printers in the same class, it wastes much less ink.

3) The same as pretty much every solvent based machine. Depending on coverage anywhere from $0.10 per square foot to $0.30 per square.

4) Color gamut has everything to do with how much effort you want to put into doing it correctly. Most people just use the color profiles that come with the machine and do fine. If you want to hit a specific color, you have to have custom profiles made or make them yourself. Color is one of the harder things to understand as a newbie and even a lot of people who have been in the business for a long time have no clue about it. I would also recommend just going with the CMYKx2 setup. I have a customer who has both an 8 color and 4 color setup and they both look exactly the same as far as output. A machine could probably tell the difference but humans can't. The CMYKx2 setup is not only faster but you don't have to worry about your orange and light black expiring all the time because they almost never get used! Plus with CMYKx2 when you run out of a color it just switches to the other one which means you virtually never run out of ink during a print. All CMYK based inks are going to be in about the same range so ink doesn't actually affect the brightness of colors the way you think it does. The profiles are what handles that.

Thanks for the useful information, and the advice on the CMYKx2 vs the 8 color setup. Thanks for demystifying ink vs color profiles, also. That makes sense to me.

 

[DigiDude]

Why not buy a CJV150 it has a built in cutter. Separate cutter makes sense if you buy multiple machines in my opinion.

2. none daily, 1x wipe in two weeks (but even then it seems unnecessary as everything is pretty clean). - it 'refreshes' itself as Vander said hourly using 1 drop of ink and makes a cleaning every 48hours using 12cc, so you can leave it for months without printing and it'll be fine.

3. average

4. 8 colors will not widen the gamut as far as I can tell (especially not the green in your question) but it'll print better quality. Just send your test file to a seller - they'll make a sample for you. The quality of the cmyk setup is more than good, I'm thinking switching from 8 colors to 2x cmyk for the speed factor.

Latex, it's grainy as hell, especially on light colors, just saying. But you should get a sample and decide it yourself.

Thanks ewded! I like the idea of a separate cutter just because I'll be cutting solid color vinyl also, and I could do that while the printer is printing. Also, most of the stuff I print will have to be laminated, so I would have to remove it from the printer anyway before cutting. And, I would like to have a more robust cutter like a Summa OPOS-CAM S2 TC160 that will handle anything I throw at it.

Does the 48 hour cleaning use 12cc's of ink per print head, or 12cc's total across all 8 print heads? That would make a huge difference in how much ink is wasted for cleaning. Also, how much ink is in the drop that is used for the hourly "refresh"? Picoliter amounts?

 

[DigiDude]

I sell many many Mimaki machines for Dye Sub, for what you are doing, you should be looking at Latex. It will save you alot of headache! This is your first printer? If you are dead set on Mimaki then I can help also, I think we should have a phone conversation. Feel free to reach out, I have seen it all 714-878-7989 I am Josh.

Thanks Josh. I have talked to Jordan there at Gans already about the HP machines, and so I'm still weighing my options. If the graininess issue is to be what I find as negligible, and the delamination issue isn't a widespread issue, then HP Latex may be the way I go (if it can reproduce the bright greens, oranges, blues, pinks, and yellows that I need for some of the work I'll be doing). Actually, at this moment I have test prints of my own that have been printed on a 560 and laminated that I received yesterday, but have yet to open because I got in late last night. I would like to have the same test prints ran on a JV150 and Epson S60600 before I make a decision as to which machine to purchase.

 

[ProColorGraphics]

Sent you a PM

 

[BigfishDM]

Thanks Josh. I have talked to Jordan there at Gans already about the HP machines, and so I'm still weighing my options. If the graininess issue is to be what I find as negligible, and the delamination issue isn't a widespread issue, then HP Latex may be the way I go (if it can reproduce the bright greens, oranges, blues, pinks, and yellows that I need for some of the work I'll be doing). Actually, at this moment I have test prints of my own that have been printed on a 560 and laminated that I received yesterday, but have yet to open because I got in late last night. I would like to have the same test prints ran on a JV150 and Epson S60600 before I make a decision as to which machine to purchase.

Excellent!

 

[ewded]

Thanks ewded! I like the idea of a separate cutter just because I'll be cutting solid color vinyl also, and I could do that while the printer is printing. Also, most of the stuff I print will have to be laminated, so I would have to remove it from the printer anyway before cutting. And, I would like to have a more robust cutter like a Summa OPOS-CAM S2 TC160 that will handle anything I throw at it.

Does the 48 hour cleaning use 12cc's of ink per print head, or 12cc's total across all 8 print heads? That would make a huge difference in how much ink is wasted for cleaning. Also, how much ink is in the drop that is used for the hourly "refresh"? Picoliter amounts?

Thanks ewded! I like the idea of a separate cutter just because I'll be cutting solid color vinyl also, and I could do that while the printer is printing. Also, most of the stuff I print will have to be laminated, so I would have to remove it from the printer anyway before cutting. And, I would like to have a more robust cutter like a Summa OPOS-CAM S2 TC160 that will handle anything I throw at it.

Does the 48 hour cleaning use 12cc's of ink per print head, or 12cc's total across all 8 print heads? That would make a huge difference in how much ink is wasted for cleaning. Also, how much ink is in the drop that is used for the hourly "refresh"? Picoliter amounts?

12cc (12ml) in total - that's about a tablespoon worth of liquid (ink+cleaning fluid). The hourly drops are just nothing it'd take years to consume a set of ink.

Can you post some comparing pictures with the 3 sample when you receive them? I'm really curious. When I wanted to buy a printer Latex was just awful, but everybody says the new ink is much better.

I also received a sample on natural fiber textile - it was very faded and unusable after one wash.

 

[d fleming]

Solvent. Just my 2 cents

 

[TomK]

Epson S60600, no question. And you can get this new for a pretty good price. Dual cmyk, near photographic quality.

You won't be happy with print quality on the latex machines with your lighter colors, I'm not with mine, search my threads for print samples across hp latex, Epson, Roland, etc.

Make sure you have your files printed out on any machine you are thinking of buying, don't fall for vendor or dealer samples.

 

[BigfishDM]

12cc (12ml) in total - that's about a tablespoon worth of liquid (ink+cleaning fluid). The hourly drops are just nothing it'd take years to consume a set of ink.

Can you post some comparing pictures with the 3 sample when you receive them? I'm really curious. When I wanted to buy a printer Latex was just awful, but everybody says the new ink is much better.

I also received a sample on natural fiber textile - it was very faded and unusable after one wash.

The natural fiber textile was not heat set, that is what gives it the washability. I have done multiple washes on our DuraVibe and looks amazing.

 

[ewded]

12cc (12ml) in total - that's about a tablespoon worth of liquid (ink+cleaning fluid). The hourly drops are just nothing it'd take years to consume a set of ink.

The natural fiber textile was not heat set, that is what gives it the washability. I have done multiple washes on our DuraVibe and looks amazing.

Unfortunately we don't have that brand available in Europe. My test were made on plain uncoated canvas.

 

[equippaint]

I'm making an assumption that you're a 1 man show and this is your first printer. Id go with a print and cut CJV150 dual cmyk to get started. You can always add a plotter later and then you have 2. I get where a latex is advantageous for wrap guys and others that consistently print long runs on the same material, but not for everybody. With the Mimaki (and others) it's fast to swap materials for each job and waste can be utilized better than with HP. Typically in this situation, it isn't the printer that is the bottleneck either. You can plot and print on 2 machines at the same time but it is highly unlikely that you could physically keep up with the weeding, laminating, masking and application so it really makes it pointless. Just speaking from my own experience but if I run my jobs right, I can not max out my machine by myself. Buy some other finishing equipment with the money you save i.e. shear, brake, punches etc.

 

[GSM903]

I've got an 8 colour 150-160 and rate it !!
Not sure where the claim about dual cmyk looking the same as the 8 colour machine comes from? The oranges i can get are almost fluro looking!

 

[DigiDude]

12cc (12ml) in total - that's about a tablespoon worth of liquid (ink+cleaning fluid). The hourly drops are just nothing it'd take years to consume a set of ink.

Can you post some comparing pictures with the 3 sample when you receive them? I'm really curious. When I wanted to buy a printer Latex was just awful, but everybody says the new ink is much better.

I also received a sample on natural fiber textile - it was very faded and unusable after one wash.

Thanks ewded! If I understand you and VanderJ correctly, and if my math is correct, it would cost approximately from $108 to $150 per month for routine maintenance of the JV150 in a shop that runs the machine every day in a 30 day month. The big variable here for me would be the cost of cleaning swabs; if I'm running the machine only a few days a week to begin, my monthly maintenance cost goes down to approximately $89 vs. $108-$150 (see my logic below, anyone please feel free to correct me where I'm wrong, as I'm a bit tired and under the weather at the moment, and so my logic may be flawed). Thanks!


Mimaki JV150 maintenance

- Uses 12ml of ink every 48 hours for cleaning

- Over the course of a month, this is 180ml of ink used for cleaning

- A 440ml cartridge of OEM Mimaki SS21 Eco-Solvent ink for this machine costs $111.00 (sold by VanderJ @ solventinkjet.com)

- 180ml of wasted ink is 40.909% of a 440ml cartridge of Mimaki OEM SS21 ink.

- 40.909% of $111.00 = $45.41/mo. in wasted SS21 ink

- $6 wiper every six months = $1.00/mo.

- $225 cap top and sponges once per year = $225/12 = $18.75/mo.

- $35 SPC-0369 Mimaki MS2, ES3 & HS Ink Cleaning Solution Kit - 200ml (from PDS Equipment) ….Bottle of solution would probably last a few years?? $35/24 months = $1.46/mo.

- Pack of 100 large, lint free Mimaki cleaning swabs (from VanderJ @ solventinkjet.com) for $39.95. To keep a clean side of the swab for each daily maintenance task would require (to my best estimate) 7 cleaning swabs per day, or 210 cleaning swabs in a 30 day month. $39.95/100 = $0.40 X 7 = $2.80 x 30 = $84/mo. If done every other day, $42/mo.

- Total monthly cost of maintenance for the JV150-160, if done daily as recommended by Mimaki, would be approximately $150.62, or $108.62 if cleaning the printer every other day.

- Opportunity for savings; use fewer cleaning swabs if possible??

I've got an 8 colour 150-160 and rate it !!
Not sure where the claim about dual cmyk looking the same as the 8 colour machine comes from? The oranges i can get are almost fluro looking!

Thanks GSM903, how is the orange ink on the JV150-160? Does it have the same reported issue of fading after only 6 months when used outdoors as the orange on the Epson S80600 does?​

 

[GSM903]

Thanks ewded! If I understand you and VanderJ correctly, and if my math is correct, it would cost approximately from $108 to $150 per month for routine maintenance of the JV150 in a shop that runs the machine every day in a 30 day month. The big variable here for me would be the cost of cleaning swabs; if I'm running the machine only a few days a week to begin, my monthly maintenance cost goes down to approximately $89 vs. $108-$150 (see my logic below, anyone please feel free to correct me where I'm wrong, as I'm a bit tired and under the weather at the moment, and so my logic may be flawed). Thanks!


Mimaki JV150 maintenance

- Uses 12ml of ink every 48 hours for cleaning

- Over the course of a month, this is 180ml of ink used for cleaning

- A 440ml cartridge of OEM Mimaki SS21 Eco-Solvent ink for this machine costs $111.00 (sold by VanderJ @ solventinkjet.com)

- 180ml of wasted ink is 40.909% of a 440ml cartridge of Mimaki OEM SS21 ink.

- 40.909% of $111.00 = $45.41/mo. in wasted SS21 ink

- $6 wiper every six months = $1.00/mo.

- $225 cap top and sponges once per year = $225/12 = $18.75/mo.

- $35 SPC-0369 Mimaki MS2, ES3 & HS Ink Cleaning Solution Kit - 200ml (from PDS Equipment) ….Bottle of solution would probably last a few years?? $35/24 months = $1.46/mo.

- Pack of 100 large, lint free Mimaki cleaning swabs (from VanderJ @ solventinkjet.com) for $39.95. To keep a clean side of the swab for each daily maintenance task would require (to my best estimate) 7 cleaning swabs per day, or 210 cleaning swabs in a 30 day month. $39.95/100 = $0.40 X 7 = $2.80 x 30 = $84/mo. If done every other day, $42/mo.

- Total monthly cost of maintenance for the JV150-160, if done daily as recommended by Mimaki, would be approximately $150.62, or $108.62 if cleaning the printer every other day.

- Opportunity for savings; use fewer cleaning swabs if possible??

Thanks GSM903, how is the orange ink on the JV150-160? Does it have the same reported issue of fading after only 6 months when used outdoors as the orange on the Epson S80600 does?​

So far so good, I have had the machine for almost a year and have not had any trouble with the orange.

 

[ewded]

Thanks ewded! If I understand you and VanderJ correctly, and if my math is correct, it would cost approximately from $108 to $150 per month for routine maintenance of the JV150 in a shop that runs the machine every day in a 30 day month. The big variable here for me would be the cost of cleaning swabs; if I'm running the machine only a few days a week to begin, my monthly maintenance cost goes down to approximately $89 vs. $108-$150 (see my logic below, anyone please feel free to correct me where I'm wrong, as I'm a bit tired and under the weather at the moment, and so my logic may be flawed). Thanks!


Mimaki JV150 maintenance

- Uses 12ml of ink every 48 hours for cleaning

- Over the course of a month, this is 180ml of ink used for cleaning

- A 440ml cartridge of OEM Mimaki SS21 Eco-Solvent ink for this machine costs $111.00 (sold by VanderJ @ solventinkjet.com)

- 180ml of wasted ink is 40.909% of a 440ml cartridge of Mimaki OEM SS21 ink.

- 40.909% of $111.00 = $45.41/mo. in wasted SS21 ink

- $6 wiper every six months = $1.00/mo.

- $225 cap top and sponges once per year = $225/12 = $18.75/mo.

- $35 SPC-0369 Mimaki MS2, ES3 & HS Ink Cleaning Solution Kit - 200ml (from PDS Equipment) ….Bottle of solution would probably last a few years?? $35/24 months = $1.46/mo.

- Pack of 100 large, lint free Mimaki cleaning swabs (from VanderJ @ solventinkjet.com) for $39.95. To keep a clean side of the swab for each daily maintenance task would require (to my best estimate) 7 cleaning swabs per day, or 210 cleaning swabs in a 30 day month. $39.95/100 = $0.40 X 7 = $2.80 x 30 = $84/mo. If done every other day, $42/mo.

- Total monthly cost of maintenance for the JV150-160, if done daily as recommended by Mimaki, would be approximately $150.62, or $108.62 if cleaning the printer every other day.

- Opportunity for savings; use fewer cleaning swabs if possible??

Thanks GSM903, how is the orange ink on the JV150-160? Does it have the same reported issue of fading after only 6 months when used outdoors as the orange on the Epson S80600 does?​

First of all you don't have to clean it every day, once a week is perfect. On the other hand I buy 200 swabs on ebay for $20

 

[ewded]

Just stop calculating the ink and waste costs and focus on purchasing the right equipment . When receiving your first $1000 job ink waste will not be important. What's important the Mimamki already takes care - reliability and consistent quality. You need the wasted ink to have a printer more trustworthy than your wife. The peace of mind to know that your prints will always be perfect is just priceless - sometimes I just start the run and an hour later I realize I didn't even check how it prints. And sure enough it's perfect.