Flatbed UV Suggestions

[Pauly]

Thanks so much for all the input! Digitech was not on my radar, but I'll put them there now and call on Monday. Vanguard as well. It would be easier to just get the Mimaki since it's a known commodity, but due diligence seems wise when spending this kind of coin.

That said, I keep coming back to the EFI PRO 30f. Speed is important, but it is not the most important thing. I print thicker stuff -- I have my own custom cornhole board design that I produce using a combo of CNC and laser cutting -- and the ability to print *assembled* boards is really compelling to me. It would allow me to streamline my process by a couple steps and allow batch production and finishing of blank boards that could then be printed and clear-coated at the end. Seems that only the PRO 30f has this large capacity. Is that right? Not sure if the larger bed would be helpful, but I don't think I've ever been in a situation where I wished the bed was *smaller* on the JFX200. For that I have a UJF-7151 anyway.

parrott -- what was the issue you had with EFI? Was it EFI themselves, or a reseller? My understanding is that they do not sell direct. I have been talking to ITNH myself.

If I was going to rank my criteria, I think the order of importance is:

1) Print quality
2) Print capacity (both bed size and gantry height)
3) Reliability
4) Support
5) Cost
6) Speed

Anyway, thanks again for all the info. Much food for thought!

--Jim.

Jim,
You need to be more specific with your requirements.

I'll break it down for you.

What is your budget?
What print speed are you looking for? / How many boards per hour?
What other requirements do you need? as you mentioned bead size and height, What are the numbers?

There are so many brands and variations out there that you can have a list of 40 printers and not know where to start.

 

[rjssigns]

Thanks so much for all the input! Digitech was not on my radar, but I'll put them there now and call on Monday. Vanguard as well. It would be easier to just get the Mimaki since it's a known commodity, but due diligence seems wise when spending this kind of coin.

That said, I keep coming back to the EFI PRO 30f. Speed is important, but it is not the most important thing. I print thicker stuff -- I have my own custom cornhole board design that I produce using a combo of CNC and laser cutting -- and the ability to print *assembled* boards is really compelling to me. It would allow me to streamline my process by a couple steps and allow batch production and finishing of blank boards that could then be printed and clear-coated at the end. Seems that only the PRO 30f has this large capacity. Is that right? Not sure if the larger bed would be helpful, but I don't think I've ever been in a situation where I wished the bed was *smaller* on the JFX200. For that I have a UJF-7151 anyway.

parrott -- what was the issue you had with EFI? Was it EFI themselves, or a reseller? My understanding is that they do not sell direct. I have been talking to ITNH myself.

If I was going to rank my criteria, I think the order of importance is:

1) Print quality
2) Print capacity (both bed size and gantry height)
3) Reliability
4) Support
5) Cost
6) Speed

Anyway, thanks again for all the info. Much food for thought!

--Jim.

Having run and still running the exact same flatbed as you currently own, my criteria would be as follows:
1) Speed and Quality.
2) Reliability

Watching a JFX200-2513 print is akin to watching paint dry. Horrifyingly slow with white and varnish. New Mimaki's are supposedly way faster.
JFX has been rock solid but that's just one machine that I have my hands on.
Other than normal maintenance the JFX in the lab has only needed the heads replaced. Printed enough to wear them out.

 

[MacD]

With today's supply chain issues Digitech might be the best option need a part from oversees who knows the wait time. I believe Digitech is in Texas.

 

[JoDa]

I worked with Oce (now Canon) when we designed and manufactured the Arizona family of flatbeds, with the first unit (Arizona 250GT) being installed at a customer of mine in Vancouver, Canada. I still have Arizona 250GTs running in the field…this unit was released in 2007.

With well over 8000 Arizonas sold worldwide it still has one of the best image quality out there. 6-42 picolitre true grayscale. There is a wide range of models and bed sizes, LED curing, innovative “Flow” vacuum systems,(we invented 2.5D printing years ago with our Touchstone software) and a worldwide service organization that will be there when you have any issues. Ever wonder why they all look like an Arizona?

The key to any printer is follow the maintenance schedule religiously…if you do you’ll have a great investment that should last many years.

As previously stated…get in front of any flatbed you are considering. Time prints in all modes, look hard at ink useage, both on paper and waste. There are a lot of “claims” that you need to verify before you invest in any device. Ask how many are installed locally as this will determine service availability. Sooner or later they all require service.

Get service and parts guarantees…for when it burps on Friday morning and the job is getting picked up at end of day, you need the confidence that whomever you bought from has your back.

good luck with your search.

 

[johnnysigns]

Yes, not sure if johnny has been in front of these machines. Unless you either own or have demo’d these machines your input is pretty much irrelevant. Real world experience is much more reliable than some dude that has watched YouTube videos or “knows somebody that has one.”

We've had a Vanguard at our shop since late 2018. We've also looked seriously at the SwissQ line at several shows, but they were just out of budget for what we could get dollar per dollar Vs the Vanguard.

 

[feckmo]

Jim,
You need to be more specific with your requirements.

I'll break it down for you.

What is your budget?
What print speed are you looking for? / How many boards per hour?
What other requirements do you need? as you mentioned bead size and height, What are the numbers?

There are so many brands and variations out there that you can have a list of 40 printers and not know where to start.

Thanks for your feedback. Budget is outlined above. Also mentioned that speed is the lowest of my main priorities -- the faster, the better, but not at the expense of priorities 1-5. Other than head height, bed size and my list of priorities, I'm not sure what other "numbers" there are. I print products, not sheets. Drumheads, cornhole boards, hockey pucks, vintage airplane plane parts, deckels, etc. That said, "boards" is not really a relevant metric for how I will use the machine.

Unless I'm missing something (which is why I am asking), it seems that the importance of print capacity -- specifically height -- in my use case immediately reduces the number of contenders to substantially fewer than 40. I am now in serious conversation with EFI, Mimaki and will hopefully speak to Digitech today. Only one of these has a clearance of less than 4", and I really only still have Mimaki on the list out of familiarity with the brand and their inksets and loyalty to my local dealer. Vanguard also seems to be fairly well-regarded, but I can't tell what would make their machines more compelling than the offerings from EFI and Digitech.

Anyway, thanks again for all the replies and suggestions -- all good food for thought. I'll report back when I have more info and have made a decision!

 

[ProColorGraphics]

Thanks for your feedback. Budget is outlined above. Also mentioned that speed is the lowest of my main priorities -- the faster, the better, but not at the expense of priorities 1-5. Other than head height, bed size and my list of priorities, I'm not sure what other "numbers" there are. I print products, not sheets. Drumheads, cornhole boards, hockey pucks, vintage airplane plane parts, deckels, etc. That said, "boards" is not really a relevant metric for how I will use the machine.

Unless I'm missing something (which is why I am asking), it seems that the importance of print capacity -- specifically height -- in my use case immediately reduces the number of contenders to substantially fewer than 40. I am now in serious conversation with EFI, Mimaki and will hopefully speak to Digitech today. Only one of these has a clearance of less than 4", and I really only still have Mimaki on the list out of familiarity with the brand and their inksets and loyalty to my local dealer. Vanguard also seems to be fairly well-regarded, but I can't tell what would make their machines more compelling than the offerings from EFI and Digitech.

Anyway, thanks again for all the replies and suggestions -- all good food for thought. I'll report back when I have more info and have made a decision!

The Epson V7000 has ~3" clearance. Not sure if that is enough for you?

 

[Pauly]

Thanks for your feedback. Budget is outlined above. Also mentioned that speed is the lowest of my main priorities -- the faster, the better, but not at the expense of priorities 1-5. Other than head height, bed size and my list of priorities, I'm not sure what other "numbers" there are. I print products, not sheets. Drumheads, cornhole boards, hockey pucks, vintage airplane plane parts, deckels, etc. That said, "boards" is not really a relevant metric for how I will use the machine.

Unless I'm missing something (which is why I am asking), it seems that the importance of print capacity -- specifically height -- in my use case immediately reduces the number of contenders to substantially fewer than 40. I am now in serious conversation with EFI, Mimaki and will hopefully speak to Digitech today. Only one of these has a clearance of less than 4", and I really only still have Mimaki on the list out of familiarity with the brand and their inksets and loyalty to my local dealer. Vanguard also seems to be fairly well-regarded, but I can't tell what would make their machines more compelling than the offerings from EFI and Digitech.

Anyway, thanks again for all the replies and suggestions -- all good food for thought. I'll report back when I have more info and have made a decision!

Now you're making some sense,

What i mean by numbers:

Price: max $250k
Head height: Min 100mm / 4" ?
bed size: 1.2 x 2.4 / 4x8 (standard size) or similar

This is what helps people help you in finding the right product.

as mentioned you'll have issues with the head height.
Most are about 50mm.
I know the JFX600 has 60mm.
The EFI does 100mm.
As pointed out the Epson v7000 can do 75mm

Good luck with your search!

 

[feckmo]

Good conversation with Digitech today, still waiting on quotes. Their machines are very impressive but also sound pretty spendy. We'll see when the quotes actually come in. I do like their philosophy on build quality and maintenance, and I love the print capacity (6"!!!) Also like that they're made in the US, but that's not a deal-breaker by any means. I'm a bit concerned about the fact that they're only running five heads (I need white) vs. the 16 or 18 or whatever it is in the likes of EFI and Mimaki, but I guess overall quality and speed is really all that matter in that regard.

Would love to talk to anyone who actually owns one about their ownership experience, software issues, etc. PM me if you're willing to discuss. Also wondering if there is real benefit to the larger 5x10 bed they offer for someone like me who does more product printing rather than board printing. I can say that I have a 4x8 router from AVID CNC, and I've always wished I went for a 5x10 if for no other reason than a bit more room and "future-proofing."

Either way, I've pretty much decided not to pull the trigger on anything (except maybe the Mimaki since that is a known commodity) until I have a chance to get some test prints done and hopefully see the machines in-person.

Thanks again!

--Jim.

 

[Solventinkjet]

Either way, I've pretty much decided not to pull the trigger on anything (except maybe the Mimaki since that is a known commodity) until I have a chance to get some test prints done and hopefully see the machines in-person.

The Mimaki JFX200 and 500 are known commodities, and great machines, but the JFX600 is brand new and has 16 heads. I'm not saying it's a bad machine by any means but with that many heads, the most likely scenario is you'll have to rely on Mimaki for service. I've seen dealer techs who are scared to work on even the 2 headed JFX200. You might ask your dealer about their tech situation before biting the bullet. Otherwise, you will have to fly Mimaki techs in. Longer wait time and more expensive. Just something to think about.

 

[ABA Visibility Products]

Good conversation with Digitech today, still waiting on quotes. Their machines are very impressive but also sound pretty spendy. We'll see when the quotes actually come in. I do like their philosophy on build quality and maintenance, and I love the print capacity (6"!!!) Also like that they're made in the US, but that's not a deal-breaker by any means. I'm a bit concerned about the fact that they're only running five heads (I need white) vs. the 16 or 18 or whatever it is in the likes of EFI and Mimaki, but I guess overall quality and speed is really all that matter in that regard.

Would love to talk to anyone who actually owns one about their ownership experience, software issues, etc. PM me if you're willing to discuss. Also wondering if there is real benefit to the larger 5x10 bed they offer for someone like me who does more product printing rather than board printing. I can say that I have a 4x8 router from AVID CNC, and I've always wished I went for a 5x10 if for no other reason than a bit more room and "future-proofing."

Either way, I've pretty much decided not to pull the trigger on anything (except maybe the Mimaki since that is a known commodity) until I have a chance to get some test prints done and hopefully see the machines in-person.

Thanks again!

--Jim.

Hey Jim--

I don't know what the other two printers you listed use, but Digitech uses Kyocera heads which are longer than a Ricoh Gen 5, for instance.

We have a 10 head version of the Digitech here-- CMYKW and it works great. It is a fantastic combination of speed and quality. We print 60 boards an hour all the time here with it.

I know Patric and company will take good care of you if you choose to hop on board there.

 

[feckmo]

The Mimaki JFX200 and 500 are known commodities, and great machines, but the JFX600 is brand new and has 16 heads. I'm not saying it's a bad machine by any means but with that many heads, the most likely scenario is you'll have to rely on Mimaki for service. I've seen dealer techs who are scared to work on even the 2 headed JFX200. You might ask your dealer about their tech situation before biting the bullet. Otherwise, you will have to fly Mimaki techs in. Longer wait time and more expensive. Just something to think about.

Excellent point. My dealer already said that Mimaki is handling all service on these machines for the foreseeable future. I read that to mean "until they have all the bugs shaken out" which really doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling about it. Like you said, the tech is known, but the machine itself is new.

We have a 10 head version of the Digitech here-- CMYKW and it works great. It is a fantastic combination of speed and quality. We print 60 boards an hour all the time here with it.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. That machine is an absolute beast but pretty far outside what I need or -- more importantly -- can afford!

 

[ABA Visibility Products]

Thanks for the vote of confidence. That machine is an absolute beast but pretty far outside what I need or -- more importantly -- can afford!

The 5 head one is just as good quality wise. Between the way they designed the machine and the heads they chose to use, it's a killer product whether you use the 5 head or 10 head version.

Good luck on your search.

 

[feckmo]

The 5 head one is just as good quality wise. Between the way they designed the machine and the heads they chose to use, it's a killer product whether you use the 5 head or 10 head version.

Good luck on your search.

Great info, thank you again. And my understanding is that the five head 5x10 can be upgraded down the road, so maybe that's the best route to go. Decisions, decisions...

 

[parrott]

I went to Digitech facility to look at the 5 head with the intent to upgrade down the road. Ended up buying the 10 head machine and it has changed our business. Would not be where we are today without it. Digitech is truly a partner of ours. They showed me how vendor/customer relationships should be. I’m 100% sold on them.

 

[BillGram]

Make the Trip to San Antonio to visit with Patric Coldaway at Digitech. you will not regret it.
The TrueFire printers are one of, or the most, precision made flatbed printer ever. US made and supported.
SwissQ is nice, great engineering and has some very clever features and has good print performance but it sound like it is out of your budget.

 

[johnnysigns]

The kyocera heads should have two color channels per head - meaning for single CMYK you'd only have two print heads. Our Vanguard uses the kyocera heads and we only have a total of 5 heads total with equates to dual cmyk and a single white head that's running white in both channels.