Font choices...

[James Burke]

Ok, if you give the customer the book containing every font you have, we all know they'd stand there for hours trying to decide.

So...

Name the top ten fonts you recommend.



JB

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Teacher, haven't we done this assignment before?

 

[James Burke]

Teacher, haven't we done this assignment before?

My bad...I'll do some searches...


JB

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I’d like to hear suggestions again.
Helvetica is all I use.

 

[Bobby H]

Unless the customer has an existing logo and branding scheme it's usually best to not let them dictate what fonts are going to be used in a sign project. They don't have the expertise. Very often font requests from clients can be pretty stupid -like wanting a thin, connected wedding script for a lighted channel letter sign. Clients can also tend to gravitate toward default system fonts from the limited choices they have on their own computer system, like Arial.

Speaking of Arial, I dislike it for many reasons. It's a boring default system typeface. It has very few weights and widths, making it far less flexible and versatile than many other type families. Arial is visually ugly in its design. Similar typefaces, such as Akzidenz Grotesk, look better. Arial is the knee-jerk go-to font for people making bad slap-dash sign designs. They set the text in Arial and then squeeze or stretch it to make it fit a given space. There's lots of that garbage all over the commercial landscape, particularly on temporary signs (banners, yard signs, site signs, etc). I hate it. I associate Arial with bad graphic design.

I try to change things up in my designs and constantly look for new type families. I'll jump on the introductory pricing deals when I see a really good type family newly released.

Nevertheless, I can't do without some families on my computer system. Helvetica is one of the basics (I use the Neue and Now versions frequently). Gotham was an expensive purchase, but it works in many type combinations. By the way, please do not squeeze or stretch Gotham; that just looks horrible. I use Termina (via Adobe Fonts) as an extended alternative to Gotham. Trajan Pro gets some use on military signs. Bookmania (Adobe Fonts) is a pretty amazing upgrade to Bookman. The Vito super family gets used for all the technical call-outs on my sketches and gets a fair bit of use in sign designs. Sanelma is one of my favorites script faces. TT Supermolot is pretty good for sporty or technical designs (the new variable version is pretty cool). Futura is a good geometric sans. Serifa is a really clean slab-serif typeface.

Side note: I'm a little disappointed Adobe Fonts is going to lose the fonts it had been hosting from Font Bureau and Carter & Cone. A limited number of fonts from House Industries were removed in March. But they've added fonts from some new foundries. Also, some fonts that were with Font Bureau, such as the Interstate family, will remain available on Adobe Fonts via the Frere Jones type foundry. The additions and removals make Adobe Fonts feel a little like a Netflix for fonts. But at least some of us knew this going in (another reason why I convert fonts to outlines in finished sign designs).

 

[player]

Signlab has their own fonts that are tweaked to be glitch free and properly kerned.

 

[Jester1167]

Before I started my own install only business, we had a banner hung in the back of the shops I worked in. I was as tall as we could print and hem, about 50" and we printed outlines for common sizes of banners (2x4, 3x6, 4x8 and the 50"x10) On the banner we included letter heights - 2", 4" 6" 8" 12"... and a list of 30 font divided into groups - san serif, serif... The fonts we chose were readable from a distance, broad in style, and easily weeded (back when most jobs were cut vinyl) This was a great sales tool to quickly solve the most common walk-in problems.

If the customer didn't have a font, they didn't get to look at the thousands of fonts on my computer, bring one or pick one. If we were designing a logo, we would make 5 or 6 rough drafts with fonts we chose based on the consultation and the type of business and they chose from them.

 

[visual800]

I will take their logo and I will compliment it with fonts I think work best. Most times than not it works and they accept, sometimes they will request different. if they suggest a crappy font I try and educate them on being professional and what would be most legible for their needs.

 

[Lindsey]

My go to fonts are:

Sans:
Avant Garde, Futura, Optima, Raleway, Switzerland, Zurich.

Serifs:
Bookman, Garamond, Goudy, Times

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I do what Jester talks about. Some that I know work in production within the average sizes that I deal with. I do keep a font that works below the average min and a few that work above the average max. The downside is even if they come in with a font in their logo, it may not work in production, so I would suggest going with something else or if they are adamant that I use that one, I'll do it with caveats. Unfortunately, I have been doing production for so long, I tend to also thing about fonts that work in production even when I'm just doing design work (vector design work mind you). For a few outside my go to, I know a few tricks to get them to work within certain height requirements (which is where I would put them in the design at those requirements, if they work). The irony is, sometimes the simple fonts don't actually work out.

As to Adobe's fonts, I'm not all that surprised. Yep, it is definitely 'Netfonts'. More then likely contract(s) didn't get renewed or didn't want to get renewed, so they rotated out of there. At least there is convert to outlines to help out. On a positive note, that may mean more people actually do that instead of doing nothing (convert to outlines is the only sure fire method that has dealt with font substitution errors in my experience and that includes all the importing, placing, work arounds that one can think of, just don't always work, sometimes that do, but converting to outlines is the only sure fire method that I know of). Unfortunately, that is the way things are with rolling release types of programs/services.

 

[Bobby H]

Signlab has their own fonts that are tweaked to be glitch free and properly kerned.

What does that even mean? Standard TTF, T1 and OTF font files are garbage? A good quality commercial typeface, such as the Gotham family I mentioned previously, is going to have a lot of kerning pairs, proper hinting, etc to make the OTF files "glitch free" anyway.

I don't have SignLab or any "CAS"-specific software on my work computer. We have multiple licenses of Flexi at my workplace, but they're installed on other computers, ones connected directly to vinyl cutters and what not. I keep checking from time to time, but the last time I looked none of the industry specific sign design applications available fully supported all the features in OpenType, even though the OpenType font format is over 20 years old. None of them support newer Variable Fonts. There's no support either for SVG Fonts.

When I started at my workplace we were using the DOS version of CASmate. It had those proprietary SCF fonts. The program even had a font conversion utility to turn TrueType or Postscript Type 1 fonts into SCF font packages. After the Scanvec-Amiable merger CASmate was put out to pasture and Flexi took over. At least Flexi will still read old CASmate SCV files. Nevertheless, once the 2000's hit I was doing far more of my design work in Adobe Illustrator and CorelDRAW rather than CASmate or Flexi. And a big part of that move was the font handling.

On the banner we included letter heights - 2", 4" 6" 8" 12"... and a list of 30 font divided into groups - san serif, serif... The fonts we chose were readable from a distance, broad in style, and easily weeded (back when most jobs were cut vinyl) This was a great sales tool to quickly solve the most common walk-in problems.

A long time ago I made a big Coroplast sign with a similar theme. It had short text strings set in a variety of fonts (serif, sans serif, a common script and some decorative display face) set at different sizes. The sign was a kind of legibility chart. We ended up trashing that thing after a few years. It seemed a bit more simple to email clients a basic visibility chart for non-decorative sans serif letters and accompany that with the recommendation they drive around town and study other signs to objectively see what works and what doesn't. Most clients preferred to leave the issue up to our own judgment. We're pretty self-critical about our own work from time to time. In the end legibility is the main thing that matters.

As to Adobe's fonts, I'm not all that surprised. Yep, it is definitely 'Netfonts'. More then likely contract(s) didn't get renewed or didn't want to get renewed, so they rotated out of there. At least there is convert to outlines to help out.

In a large enough shop where two, three or more people are having to access the original designs, converting all the fonts in the original full size design to outlines is often very necessary. Even without the factor of the Netflix-style angle of Adobe Fonts, the legal licensing terms on most commercially sold fonts are pretty strict. It's just not practical at all to install the same font collections on every computer in a sign company. And it would be stupidly ridiculous to limit the design end of the company to only using common fonts installed on all the other computers in the building.

I still don't like the Font Bureau font families leaving Adobe Fonts. There's a few FB families I've used from time to time via Adobe Fonts. Titling Gothic is a big and versatile type family that has been gaining popularity, I think in part via its availability in Adobe Fonts. The new Grant TV mini-series uses it. Amplitude is another big FB type family; one of the tabloids, National Enquirer I think, uses it extensively.

Reading a bit further into the dispute, it seems the issue Font Bureau has with Adobe is over gray area between single user licensing and enterprise use (multiple users or vast numbers of users). Adobe offers some serious discounts when a large company buys a certain level of Creative Cloud for Teams licenses. We have 3 accounts at my workplace; for us it actually costs more getting on the Teams thing, so we have 3 individual licenses. Anyway, Font Bureau was apparently losing some big clients over the cost difference of licesning type families from them directly versus that big client using Creative Cloud for less money. Any Creative Cloud subscriber wanting to use Font Bureau fonts in their documents is eligible for some discount pricing to buy fonts direct from Font Bureau.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

In a large enough shop where two, three or more people are having to access the original designs, converting all the fonts in the original full size design to outlines is often very necessary. Even without the factor of the Netflix-style angle of Adobe Fonts, the legal licensing terms on most commercially sold fonts are pretty strict. It's just not practical at all to install the same font collections on every computer in a sign company. And it would be stupidly ridiculous to limit the design end of the company to only using common fonts installed on all the other computers in the building.

I wish that that actually translated into more of them actually doing it.

I still don't like the Font Bureau font families leaving Adobe Fonts.

It sucks, but it's going to happen on occasion. Only hope that one has is that they come back into the fold again at some point.

Reading a bit further into the dispute, it seems the issue Font Bureau has with Adobe is over gray area between single user licensing and enterprise use (multiple users or vast numbers of users). Adobe offers some serious discounts when a large company buys a certain level of Creative Cloud for Teams licenses.

More then likely, it's always going to be licensing terms and one side being disgruntled (also more then likely the side that has the items being licensed). Anytime that a 3rd party solution is used within a software platform, that is a potential issue. Take advantage of it while you can, but don't become dependent on it. May not always be there. Not the first time that that has happened with the suite, not going to be the last.

Of course, this can actually happen with options and abilities within the program that are not 3rd party blobs as well, but when it's 3rd party, that risk seems to be more of a risk, but the other can be as well.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

So much for font suggestions.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

So much for font suggestions.

Not necessarily.

Not too off topic either. Don't want to have one of your font staples being a part of a collection that could rotate out at a moment's notice beyond your control, regardless if the customer has the ability to choose it or not.

Biggest thing in my mind, is going to be if these choices that the customer has going to be for in house production (if I recall the OP mainly works in stone, but I could be wrong about that, memory isn't what it used to be), so I would stick with fonts that works in production and covers the types of projects that you get for that work(a selection for memorials, selection for signage etc and just show the appropriate ones for the project) or is it just general design work that is not going to be used in house for some physical production?

 

[Bobby H]

So much for font suggestions.

Some of us have offered suggestions, but any list of "recommended fonts" is really pretty worthless without having any context relating to a specific sign project. It would be just as easy to check something like the "Best Sellers" page at the MyFonts web site as a gauge of what's popular.

The topic of Adobe Fonts and certain fonts being pulled from the service underscores how important it is for anyone who relies heavily on specific "work horse" fonts to be sure nothing will disrupt their ability to use those fonts. Another hazard is relying on fonts in old formats like Postscript Type 1. In recent years some Windows updates have created problems with those kinds of fonts. It has been a long time since support was completely removed for a font format, like the Type 1 Multiple Master format. Variable fonts have revived the idea, but their use poses backward compatibility issues with older graphics applications.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Some of us have offered suggestions, but any list of "recommended fonts" is really pretty worthless without having any context relating to a specific sign project. It would be just as easy to check something like the "Best Sellers" page at the MyFonts web site as a gauge of what's popular.

The topic of Adobe Fonts and certain fonts being pulled from the service underscores how important it is for anyone who relies heavily on specific "work horse" fonts to be sure nothing will disrupt their ability to use those fonts. Another hazard is relying on fonts in old formats like Postscript Type 1. In recent years some Windows updates have created problems with those kinds of fonts. It has been a long time since support was completely removed for a font format, like the Type 1 Multiple Master format. Variable fonts have revived the idea, but their use poses backward compatibility issues with older graphics applications.

Im switching from using all helvetica to all Arial now.

 

[Stacey K]

I like Billgates lately. In place of Arial I use Calibri. I frequently use...Bookman, Futura, Chicago Style DNA, Aardvark, Sarah Script, Sanista One, Square 721, Avant Garde, PizzaOpti
Font I've deleted and had to reload several times...Brush.
Font I'm bored with...Impact.
Font I like but don't use often...He's Dead Jim.
Favorite color...pink
Favorite food...pizza

 

[Bobby H]

I think Calibri has a little too much style to it to act as a replacement for Arial. It's not a very neutral looking typeface. Helvetica and various Helveti-clones (Swiss 721, Nimbus Sans, Triumvirate, etc) are easy choices. Akzidenz Grotesk has more of the Arial feel, but without looking nearly so ugly. Franklin Gothic is also a good substitute for Arial.

Impact is wearing itself thin as the default meme font.

"Sanista One"? I've heard of Sonsie One. Then there's the Sansita type family (12 styles, free).

I like Sarah Script; FYI, Borges Lettering & Design has it available to sync at Adobe Fonts. Or buy it at Letterhead Fonts for $35.

I have multiple versions of Futura. They're not interchangeable; one foundry's version of Futura will be slightly different from that of another foundry. So if I design something like channel letters set in Futura I make at note of which version was used. I convert the original lettering to curves anyway to avoid font substitution issues in the future. But it's still nice to have a record of what was used rather than having to experient with a few versions of the same typeface.

 

[decalman]

I use Arial and a few others, Changing the stroke, most important.
For cursives, I stick to the sign painters fonts. I've had them for years. Couldn't get by without them.

 

[bob]

If you're supposed to be the professional then you decide. You don't show a client a smattering of typefaces and let them decide. The client gets to like or dislike something but you get to say what it looks like.