Forced to leave Wasatch for VersaSh*t...

[Patentagosse]

Am I the only one who deeply regret the switch to VersaSh*t from previous stable & predictable Wasatch SoftRIP? Damn, this thing drives me crazy. I've wasted countless hours of color match on files that I hit the target on 1st attempt with Wasatch. I know Roland's has some nice features but for being right on a desired color, seems like mission impossible. I've learned all the tricks for color match (i.e. using Roland color library for spot colors...), watched the webinars but everytime there's a li'l something that goes wrong so I'm like half way were I want to be. The tech guy at Wasatch told me they have updated the SoftRIP for new printers who run on Versawork (unfortunately, my current version was only for SP-300 of 1st generation (the USB ones, not network connected). At the time I switched, I was happy with the outputs 'cause gradients were flawless (smooth, no step / banding / color hues) but for solid colors (vector-based) were density, brightness and colormatch are targeted, Wasatch is second to none. Right now I'm printing a bright blue cross (formula C100 M40 Y0 K0) on Oracal reflective 5600 using MaxDensityUS color management but it still comes out "dusty" (full of tinny white spots).. 'Tried different setiings (heat, speed...) but 2 hours later (YES, I'M that picky 'bout colors), I will have no choice to close my eyes and deal with it as I don't wanna spend 1 more minute on it...

Tell me I'm not the only one... Sure now I can spend another $1500 - $2000 to switch back to Wasatch but it's big money in my budget (but will probably do it sooner or later before killing someone...)

 

[Mike F]

Technically, you're supposed to design in RGB for VersaWorks. Try converting your CMYK colors to matching RGB colors and see how that works out for you. Also, for color management, use MAX Impact for anything that's fully vector, Prepress US for anything with raster in it (and go to Properties and set your Raster Matching Method to Perceptual if it includes a photograph).

I'm assuming you haven't printed out the Rolan Color Libraries yet. Using the Roland swatches is generally your best bet for trying to match colors.

 

[Patentagosse]

Technically, you're supposed to design in RGB for VersaWorks. Try converting your CMYK colors to matching RGB colors and see how that works out for you. Also, for color management, use MAX Impact for anything that's fully vector, Prepress US for anything with raster in it (and go to Properties and set your Raster Matching Method to Perceptual if it includes a photograph).

I'm assuming you haven't printed out the Rolan Color Libraries yet. Using the Roland swatches is generally your best bet for trying to match colors.

Yes, the poster is on the wall and I refer to it but that doesn't cure the "dusty" look. It looks like a density problem but it's decent on wrap film... Wasatch gave me saturated / bold colors I really miss...

As for designing in RGB, 1st time someone told me this. The default BLUE RGB in Flexi (0 0 255) printed amazing before I upgrade the printer to a bigger one. Now, on VersaWork, it prints almost purple (however density is good...) ???

 

[Patentagosse]

I'm stuck with VW for now....and I feel your pain.

What profile are you using for printing on 5600?

Have you tried this one?
http://www.oracal.com/knowledge/icc-profiles.asp
Not saying it will work as I've never tried it, but it may be worth a shot.

I just checked what I use...and it's the orafol 3651G profile downloaded from the roland site. Prints RIDICULOUSLY slow and uses a sh*t ton of ink but it prints beautifully.

'Will give it a try. I tested different profiles (Oracal's own and some custom tweaked here with the tech. at delivery) but still "dusty".

 

[Patentagosse]

The environment can't be the issue as I'm keeping everything within Roland's specs. Currently 23°C / 42% humidity. Brand new roll, factory wrapped, but with the testings, we are now 6ft from the loading point so if there's contamination, it's from the factory ('never had a single issue with Oracal medias so far). Floor is vacuumed and mopped every week. I work in socks (no shoes allowed in my office / print room)

 

[sdodson1]

Have you tried "sign and display" or "max impact" in your quality tab under color management? Usually fixes the light or soft print colors for me.

 

[Patentagosse]

Tested. No effect. My blue looks like "metallic" , like if there was space between inkdrop of cyan. Sure, if I print black, I'll be fully saturated but I need to print almost pure CYAN out-of-the-cartridge. 'Done that in the past with success so WHY TODAY IT DOESN'T DO IT? Bad Karma I figure...

 

[sdodson1]

If its vector art to get a true cyan I have to check the preserve primary colors tab in color management properties. I also kept getting a blended or washed out version of it. Sorry that didn't help! Good luck!

 

[Mike F]

If its vector art to get a true cyan I have to check the preserve primary colors tab in color management properties. I also kept getting a blended or washed out version of it. Sorry that didn't help! Good luck!

Totally forgot about that box, that might be your problem.

 

[Patentagosse]

Totally forgot about that box, that might be your problem.

Actually not, ...but thanks for your inputs. Colors print good on other medias (Oracal 3951 - 3551 - 3165 - 3628 / Avery 2903 - 2105 - 1005EZ RS / Bannerss). My outputs have matte spots everywhere but unprinted reflective material is fully gloss.

I know you won't really see it but take a closer look at my logo (the grey swash) and the ambulance cross.

 

[Baz]

That really looks like its a media problem. Can you add more heat to it?

 

[Jim Doggett]

Am I the only one who deeply regret the switch to VersaSh*t from previous stable & predictable Wasatch SoftRIP? Damn, this thing drives me crazy. I've wasted countless hours of color match on files that I hit the target on 1st attempt with Wasatch. I know Roland's has some nice features but for being right on a desired color, seems like mission impossible. I've learned all the tricks for color match (i.e. using Roland color library for spot colors...), watched the webinars but everytime there's a li'l something that goes wrong so I'm like half way were I want to be. The tech guy at Wasatch told me they have updated the SoftRIP for new printers who run on Versawork (unfortunately, my current version was only for SP-300 of 1st generation (the USB ones, not network connected). At the time I switched, I was happy with the outputs 'cause gradients were flawless (smooth, no step / banding / color hues) but for solid colors (vector-based) were density, brightness and colormatch are targeted, Wasatch is second to none. Right now I'm printing a bright blue cross (formula C100 M40 Y0 K0) on Oracal reflective 5600 using MaxDensityUS color management but it still comes out "dusty" (full of tinny white spots).. 'Tried different setiings (heat, speed...) but 2 hours later (YES, I'M that picky 'bout colors), I will have no choice to close my eyes and deal with it as I don't wanna spend 1 more minute on it...

Tell me I'm not the only one... Sure now I can spend another $1500 - $2000 to switch back to Wasatch but it's big money in my budget (but will probably do it sooner or later before killing someone...)

Wasatch doesn't support Roland printers?

Jim Doggett
SignWarehouse

 

[Patentagosse]

No, I always print with heaters cranked up to the max but 'have tried with lower settings (35°C... not OFF) with same results.

In fact, yes... I could be using a torch but 'will probably create other surface problems... ;P

 

[Patentagosse]

Wasatch doesn't support Roland printers?

YES. I said I had Wasatch installed to run my previous printer (SP-300) but when I swapped the printer, the new one came with VW so I asked if I could still use my SoftRIP and 'been answered NO because this "old" version only supoorted the SP (300-540) of 1st generation. New machines are network connected, use different board, new RIPC pass control so I would need to upgrade to their new version, which is over $1000 from what I recall. I trust me, I won't spend another $1000 - $1500 on software w/o having made all the testings I need to make sure I won't run back into similar problems. Who knows if they had to change something to be compatible with the RIPC feature and that brings me back to where I am right now? I don't have this money to throw away w/o solid support. I don't wanna be told: "well, now that you opened the packaging, it's YOURS... no return on opened boxes...

 

[Mike F]

Have you tried a different material that you have laying around? If it prints fine on something else then it's more than likely a media or profile issue.

 

[Salmoneye]

Looks like a profile issue, what profile are you using?

 

[Patentagosse]

I tried many...

'Called my Oracal distibutor and 'mentioned the poor results I'm getting. He replied: "I can't tell over the phone... put a decal on the side for me and I'll look at that when I'll go visit you in 2-3 weeks". Wow! I'm impressed (...) In 2-3 weeks, the 17 units will be "on-duty" so let say I'll go that way and by the time you see it, let's hope I won't need reflective again...

I hope some spots to desappear when I'll lay down the overlaminate...

I have tested the same file on 3551 and it printed super nice. 'Must be related to the material itself. I went throught many rolls of 5600 before and never notice any flaw

 

[Gene@mpls]

I don't see where you mentioned which printer you have now? The SPs were
2 head and I think all the newer ones are 4 head? I have a Roland only
version of Wasatch 6.x that I am not using BTW.

 

[Jim Doggett]

YES. I said I had Wasatch installed to run my previous printer (SP-300) but when I swapped the printer, the new one came with VW so I asked if I could still use my SoftRIP and 'been answered NO because this "old" version only supoorted the SP (300-540) of 1st generation. New machines are network connected, use different board, new RIPC pass control so I would need to upgrade to their new version, which is over $1000 from what I recall. I trust me, I won't spend another $1000 - $1500 on software w/o having made all the testings I need to make sure I won't run back into similar problems. Who knows if they had to change something to be compatible with the RIPC feature and that brings me back to where I am right now? I don't have this money to throw away w/o solid support. I don't wanna be told: "well, now that you opened the packaging, it's YOURS... no return on opened boxes...

Sorry. I reread and see now what you were saying.

My thoughts are Wasatch is just hands down the best RIP, imho. Plus you're burning through ink and media, and having to waste time, which is pretty frustrating.

Life is short. Go with what works and makes you happy, seems the best course .. imo.

Jim Doggett
SignWarehouse

 

[Mike F]

I tried many...

'Called my Oracal distibutor and 'mentioned the poor results I'm getting. He replied: "I can't tell over the phone... put a decal on the side for me and I'll look at that when I'll go visit you in 2-3 weeks". Wow! I'm impressed (...) In 2-3 weeks, the 17 units will be "on-duty" so let say I'll go that way and by the time you see it, let's hope I won't need reflective again...

I hope some spots to desappear when I'll lay down the overlaminate...

I have tested the same file on 3551 and it printed super nice. 'Must be related to the material itself. I went throught many rolls of 5600 before and never notice any flaw

Don't bother waiting, send it back along with whatever you printed from it so far and tell your guy you want a new roll ASAP. If it printed fine on another type of media you more than likely got a bad roll.

 

[JoshLoring]

Have you tried "sign and display" or "max impact" in your quality tab under color management? Usually fixes the light or soft print colors for me.

Of anyone is this forum is using anything other than "Custom" in color management quality.... Your using the wrong profile..

 

[Jack Knight1979]

Use the desired profile for the media. To bump up color switch between perpetual and colometic. This deepens the saturation. I know exactly what your talking about. Most Likely a total ink output problem.

You have to make your own profiles.