Forum Design Ethics

[HulkSmash]

*cough*

saw that coming when Addy posted that. lmao

 

[signswi]

This issue is why I only post written critique--rights don't transfer just because you're posting it as a suggestion and I WOULD want compensation if the design was used commercially (unless the person came to me nicely to work something out but that would be case by case, just like my normal pro bono work). Very few people understand rights transfer and it's best to just avoid it someplace like this where you're dealing with competitors and a lot of shady people (no offense to anyone in particular). Collaborative idea generation doesn't eliminate intellectual property rights of the participants unless there is some sort of signed agreement and nor should it.

 

[d fleming]

If I post a design to help someone I expect nothing more than thank you as proper manners would dictate. If I expect compensation you would not see me post anything as far as a design. Most likely they would receive my help in a pm rather than posting in a forum anyway. As Gino said, I'm not a designer for hire so much as a screenprinter/signmaker with many, many years of experience anyway. Some of the designwork I have seen on these forums just blows me away and makes me want to work even harder to sharpen my skills.

 

[Deaton Design]

So tell me if Im right, if you put up a design, to maybe help or send someone in the right direction, then that person likes that design enough that they would like to use it, just as it is, you will give it to them if they ask for it? Absolutlely free, no charge? I might be reading it wrong, so dont castrate me if I did.
I can understand a person taking advice in the form of a design and using that as inspiration for their own work, but if they want to use it verbatim, as is, as their brand, then payment should be discussed. I have put up designs a number of times to help others out, as have you guys, and I dont think ever once did someone want to use it outright as their logo. Adtechia apparently did, or stated so in his reply, so I pmd him and we talked about it. If he decides he doesnt want it, thats cool, I never intended by putting it up to get paid for it, but if he does decide he wants to use it, Im sure we will come to a monetary agreement for doing so.

 

[Rick]

I have had several forum members ask to use a logo and some designs I have posted and I have basically let them use it for "free"... but I do ask those who are not premium members to pony up to support the site. Kinda like what Joe said, I'm not really doing logo design, so they may not be getting my best, I am not using the complete design process, so the logo, attractive as it may be, may not be the best solution.

They have to ask, otherwise they are mine to repurpose... am I gonna get butt hurt if someone pinches my work, probably not. I have not gotten butt hurt when they use it and not show the the finished product or get a thank you... I show logo/designs for me first, and if someone learns something from it, that is just icing on the cake...

 

[Deaton Design]

WHen I see a post on someones logo, and them asking advice or help on it, Ill take a look at it, and if nothing hits me that I think would help them, I just go on. Most of the time, Im late for the dance anyway, and the good advice has already been given. There are logo designers on here whose stuff I love to see. I love to see how they approached that idea that was shown them. They put it down in words, but it doesnt hit me unless they show a little of what they mean. I think that helps us all. I know when I do a design and post it on someones thread, it gives me a chance to design something new and get some much needed practice, and I spend very little time on it. Sometimes thats all thats needed. I know some of you have spent hours on designs and still not been happy, and then one day you spend ten minutes and bam! you hit it first time. That happens to me at times too. Not alot though. I usually spend hours on designs to get them to the point I think they are ready. When you have been at this as long as some of us have, you know what works and what doesnt. Course, the customer may not always agree with you, and there you go, back again to try and find that simple idea that will shoot the moon. The design I put on adtechias thread took me about 15 minutes. I looked at what was on there, and put the word up in illustrator, and the rest seem to come quickly. When I finished I thought it looked okay, so I put it out there. But only as a quick idea for others to see, and for him to see and maybe spark an idea.
Im glad he liked it. Maybe he will end up using it, or he might change his mind and go another route. Both ways will be fine with me. Ive been doing work on here for quite a few people, Ive loved doing it, loved getting paid for it, and glad that I can do something that others find good enough to hire me. But Im not always out to fish for a dollar. Sometimes just to help and offer advice in the way I know how to, by drawing it up, or whipping up the design on my computer. I dont get alot of logo work here in my little rabbit hole, so this stuff keeps me sharp. If I can make a dollar or two on a whim, well heck yeah! Thanks for listening...

 

[Marlene]

this is a good question. when I see a post concerning a design, I never post a drawn idea of my own. this isn't because I don't take the time or don't want to give something away, but because I read a lot. huh, you might ask has that got to do with anything. I know from reading that the author sets a scene, but the person reading fills in the details from their own mind. if you were to read about a cabin in the woods, what would it look like to you? mine would be a small log cabin with pine trees all around it. there wouldn't be grass, just pine needles and mossy rocks. even with that, you still have the chance to fill in your own vision, not my vision of what this cabin looks like. I like the verbal as it gives the person a direction but how they see that direction is their own vision. as far as a posted design getting paid for, that would be up to the people involved.

 

[Joe Diaz]

Here is another question to add to the mix. What do you all think about this:

Let us say Member B designed something for Member A's thread, and regardless of whether or not member A uses the ideas or buys the design from Member B, Member B and the rest of the forum like the design a lot. Member B now thinks that that design might be portfolio worthy especially if Member A hasn't stated that they were going to use that design.

Wouldn't it be okay if Member B used that design in his or her portfolio? or would that not be ethical, especially if Member A does end up using the design and their customer pays for it and one day comes across the design on Member B's website? The design would be an example of Member B's abilities and member B did do the work...

 

[SignManiac]

Unless you designed it yourself, it shouldn't be used in your portfolio...If you show it you should give credit where credit is due to the original designer.

 

[Rick]

Here is another question to add to the mix. What do you all think about this:

Let us say Member B designed something for Member A's thread, and regardless of whether or not member A uses the ideas or buys the design from Member B, Member B and the rest of the forum like the design a lot. Member B now thinks that that design might be portfolio worthy especially if Member A hasn't stated that they were going to use that design.

Wouldn't it be okay if Member B used that design in his or her portfolio? or would that not be ethical, especially if Member A does end up using the design and their customer pays for it and one day comes across the design on Member B's website?

When people have asked to use a design that I did.... I have let them have it free and clear, there are only a few instances where I retained the "rights of promotion" (get to show it on my portfolio)

Whatever I have designed, I have a right to show, and I have done some decent portfolio worthy logos here on occasion. But for me, I would sleep better at night if I change the name so that the Member A does not have to explain anything if their client goes sleuthing around online and stumbles on a logo concept that they never saw with their name on it.

On occasion I have had logos on a printed presentation to give a client an idea of my skills. But to me, getting the client is the hard part, crapping out logo concepts is easy... since that client does not belong to me, I personally feel that it's a courtesy to alter the business name of you are gonna use it online or enter it in competitions.

 

[Jillbeans]

What about when a member here calls you and asks if they can use images from your website on their own?
That happened to me and it made me feel really uncomfortable even being asked.
I told them no.
I had done some design work for them, and I wouldn't really care if they posted those in their portfolio.
But they wanted a whole bunch of my stuff to use as "examples" of what they could offer. I kind of felt like a jagoff for saying no, but I didn't think it was right for them to claim my work as theirs, even if I really don't think they meant it to look that way.

 

[Mosh]

All of my Mexican help went south for the winter so my shop isn't very ethnic at the current time.

 

[Rick]

What about when a member here calls you and asks if they can use images from your website on their own?
That happened to me and it made me feel really uncomfortable even being asked.
I told them no.
I had done some design work for them, and I wouldn't really care if they posted those in their portfolio.
But they wanted a whole bunch of my stuff to use as "examples" of what they could offer. I kind of felt like a jagoff for saying no, but I didn't think it was right for them to claim my work as theirs, even if I really don't think they meant it to look that way.

Don't feel bad for saying no... your portfolio is your business, without it, you are only a person who says they can design/letter/paint. I'm thinking the person who asked was a little (or a lot) clueless

 

[Rick]

All of my Mexican help went south for the winter so my shop isn't very ethnic at the current time.

I would like to nominate this for the "random post of the month" award.

 

[signmeup]

That would be "un-ethnical". Mosh is funny.

 

[Gino]

How 'bout this ??

Member 'A' or 'B' strike up a deal. Doesn't matter who collects or gets paid. Let's just say the deal is over. How about the many other 'C', 'D', 'E', 'F" or whatevers.... what if not that same one that is used by other lurkers or possible low-end members.... gotta start somewhere.... that use the pictures posted and don''t let anyone know... all they did was change a name or something ?? I think I worded that correctly.

That's the only part of these scenarios I think that stinks. If you don't think it happens, think again. We're only hearing about the honest people, but I can practically guarantee this is happening more than you realize.

Nothing is sacred unless you're behind the closed doors so to speak.

 

[petesign]

Here is another question to add to the mix. What do you all think about this:
Wouldn't it be okay if Member B used that design in his or her portfolio? or would that not be ethical, especially if Member A does end up using the design and their customer pays for it and one day comes across the design on Member B's website? The design would be an example of Member B's abilities and member B did do the work...

Joe, your logo in my thread today was awesome - if you wanted to use it in a portfolio, I would have no problem with that whatsoever. I am ethically wrestling with the fact that I used a lot of ideas put forth in that conversation, and am now going to use a logo that evolved from those suggestions. I can claim the initial inspiration of how the letters interlocked, and maybe the color scheme, but the tweaks that made it come together came from a wide host of people on this forum. For that I am very grateful to everyone who participated. I hope to be able to return the favor someday.

Perhaps that's the answer, I hope to pay it forward (I hate that cliche) .. I try to be a valid asset to the community, though at times I know I am receiving more from the board than I contribute... There are some really great artists on here who freely contribute their talent and ideas to help each other out, and it's not my intention (nor would I hope it is anyone else's - but i'm not that naive) to abuse anyone's generosity. I'm learning, and trying my best not to step on anyone's toes while I am at it.

 

[ForgeInc]

Joe - Great question. I submit that it would be a matter of simply asking member A if you could use it in your portfolio. Then...hopefully Member A would give you the green light because 1: you took the time to offer them help whether they used it or not...and 2: It might mean free advertising to member A's company.

I often used logos in my portfolio that actually weren't the client's final picks. When that happens, I simply state when showing said logo that it was a "proposed" solution.

PS: I think I know what you are referring to, and I would wanna show it off too