Freaking Stupid Dell botches the new XPS 17

[unclebun]

Can't you just plug two chargers into it?

No, it apparently cannot do that according to the article I read.

 

[netsol]

Have you looked at the prices of the "creator's edition" versions of the XPS 17? They start out at nearly $3000 and go well North of that when certain options are upgraded. If that doesn't qualify as "higher end" then I don't know what does. I was looking at a getting a notebook in the $3500-$4000 price range after all the upgrades had been applied (after market 64 DDR4 RAM and a 2TB PCIe M2 SSD).

As I said before, the real deal-breaking problem is the system continuing to suck on the battery even when it's plugged into a wall outlet. Again, THAT SUCKS. No laptop computer should ever draw from the battery while plugged into a wall outlet regardless of its price category.

BTW, the "higher end" sister to the XPS 17, the Precision 5750 Mobile Workstation, has the same battery draw problem.

Notebook computer batteries have a limited life span. You get only so many charge cycles on them before they have to be replaced. It's more difficult and expensive to replace batteries in newer notebooks. The prevailing product design mantra has been thinner and lighter above all other priorities. So all the batteries are "integrated;" you have to crack open the case with a spudger and use special tools for all the tiny screws used to mount the battery to the chassis. My old, circa 2011 Dell XPS notebook had a battery that could be removed externally.

Important point: computer companies stop making replacement batteries for a given notebook model after only a few years. If you continue to use the machine, like I did with my 9 year old Dell XPS, it has to just stay plugged into a wall outlet. But it still works! With a machine like the 2020 Dell XPS 17 it wouldn't do so well in the same plugged-in scenario if the battery was dead or removed. It would throttle way down, that is if the machine would even work at all.

I think my game plan for the time being is to upgrade the hard drive in the old notebook and keep using it. Thankfully they're still making 2.5" SATA notebook hard disks and form factor SSDs.



The condition many users are witnessing is the XPS 17 is drawing the battery way down while plugged into a wall outlet. This isn't a once in awhile sip while the CPU or GPU is under max loads. It's happening frequently. That's going to translate into a battery wearing itself out over a short period of time. And ultimately it means a far shorter product life.



I've looked at the 7740. It runs into the same problems as gaming notebooks. A decent configuration yields horrible battery life. Add in super high cost for good measure. The 2020 XPS 17 does not come with top tier video boards in exchange for greater portability and battery life. The machine hits the sweet spot big time in terms of balancing performance with portability and battery life. But Dell made a giant mistake by pulling an Apple-style move by ditching the dedicated AC port and forcing AC over USB-C.

but, bobby

2 points

you can always put a 2nd battery into that extra bay

also

you can still get 3rd party batteries for that older laptop, you just choose not to. the secondary market still supports 8" floppy drives & components for cpm computers

we are almost never left high and dry (other than epson dx2 printheads)

 

[Reveal1]

As I said before, the real deal-breaking problem is the system continuing to suck on the battery even when it's plugged into a wall outlet. Again, THAT SUCKS. No laptop computer should ever draw from the battery while plugged into a wall outlet regardless of its price category.

BTW, the "higher end" sister to the XPS 17, the Precision 5750 Mobile Workstation, has the same battery draw problem.

That's why I suggested Precision 7750 - has 240 watt power supply, around $2700 for I7 8core, discrete graphics, 100% gamut 500nit screen, add own memory and SSD

 

[Bobby H]

According to an article I read, the system is supposed to be able to draw 130W from the Thunderbolt charger, but stops at 105W and won't draw more. They have the same charging system in their XPS 15 9500, and it is able to draw 130W in that system. So it appears that they meant for it to be able to keep from discharging the battery, but there is a defect in the XPS 17 9700 that keeps it from drawing the full power.

Adding another layer of interest, the 2020 Dell XPS 15 is limited to NVidia GeForce GTX 1650 Ti. So not only is the XPS 15 equipped with a more effective power supply (130w vs 105w) it also has a less power hungry video card.

This power draw problem just adds more embarrassment to the already controversial launch of the XPS 17. Early review samples of the new notebook and some early retail copies had a very annoying problem with the huge track pad: it was loose and would make odd clicking noises when used. The problem was bad enough on some systems that it interfered with track pad accuracy and entering proper clicks. The track pad issue turned out to be a quality control issue. Dell claims they have resolved it. Now we have this garbage involving unnecessary power draw on the battery.

Dell's XPS 17 is their first 17" XPS notebook in 10 years. It was supposed to be their answer to the 16" MacBook Pro. The bean counters simply have to realize if they're going to challenge Apple they gotta bring their A-game. This garbage with the XPS 17 ain't the way to do it.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

You do realize that Apple challenging "Right to Repair", could very well make getting any OEM not good in the long haul?

If it goes Apple's way, guess what your issues are definitely going to get a lot harder.

Might as well pucker up now.

This is why I made the suggestion that I did and why I have honestly gone this way even for as something as mundane as a keyboard.

It isnt going to get any better for the consumer.

 

[Pauly]

why are you so focused on the XPS 17 when theres other better 17" laptops out there.

 

[Bobby H]

why are you so focused on the XPS 17 when theres other better 17" laptops out there.

One person's definition of "better" is going to vary widely depending on what he or she wants out of a notebook computer. Budget is also a valid consideration (especially for me after my recent hospital stay). The key thing is BALANCE of priorities.

There are several far more powerful 17" notebooks than a fully tricked out 2020 Dell XPS 17. But in return for more powerful CPUs, video cards, etc they're giving up battery life and portability. For example, the Alienware Area 51 notebook is arguably the most powerful gaming notebook on the market, but I think it's a stupid (and overly costly) product because it can't survive away from a wall outlet for more than an hour. Notebooks fitted with Core i9 CPUs (and similar Xeon CPUs) are often a waste of money since they're typically put into notebooks too thin and limited on thermals to dissipate the heat. The CPUs throttles down to prevent cooking itself to death. There are notebooks that get amazing amounts of battery life and are very portable, but often those machines include trade-offs like small screens and anemic performance.

The 2020 Dell XPS 17 offers a very good balance between computing power and portability. Six or so hours of battery life in a UHD+ large screen notebook is really pretty good. That's what makes the battery draw issue seem so stupid and frustrating. Dell literally snatched defeat from the jaws of victory with that power adapter blunder.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

The key thing is BALANCE of priorities.

I think the key thing is a REALISTIC balance of priorities. I am not saying that you have to like that part of it or even agree that it should be that way, just the way that it is more often then not.

Now granted as far as portability goes, that's going to vary on the individual.

I drive everywhere, I haven't flown since well before 9-11 and as such that type of portability restriction doesn't apply to me at all, it may you, so either have had a power inverter for my trucks or my truck now actually has outlets in it. So charging on the road is a non issue and those power inverters can run on anything with the traditional cigarette plug that has been in vehicles for I don't know how long.

I mean the trade offs that you are complaining about are actually trade offs that I would expect to happen. Those are generally the trade offs when people want portability as an equal if not more important factor compared to computing power.

I also have to say that I have yet to get battery charge like the OEMs claim, even with doing dimming and a bunch of other tricks to max battery life. Your mileage may vary, just my experience.

If it's been a couple of yrs and you aren't finding an OEM that's going to fit the bill for you, I have to wonder if you will unless might want to temper your expectations a bit if you are only going to go through OEM channels.

Your going to find issues no matter what. I've got an i9 in my tower and the only way to make it stable was to delid it. They have since fixed the issue, but it happens. They may fix this and then maybe you'll have a better chance of getting your dream laptop. One can only hope.

 

[Pauly]

One person's definition of "better" is going to vary widely depending on what he or she wants out of a notebook computer. Budget is also a valid consideration (especially for me after my recent hospital stay). The key thing is BALANCE of priorities.

There are several far more powerful 17" notebooks than a fully tricked out 2020 Dell XPS 17. But in return for more powerful CPUs, video cards, etc they're giving up battery life and portability. For example, the Alienware Area 51 notebook is arguably the most powerful gaming notebook on the market, but I think it's a stupid (and overly costly) product because it can't survive away from a wall outlet for more than an hour. Notebooks fitted with Core i9 CPUs (and similar Xeon CPUs) are often a waste of money since they're typically put into notebooks too thin and limited on thermals to dissipate the heat. The CPUs throttles down to prevent cooking itself to death. There are notebooks that get amazing amounts of battery life and are very portable, but often those machines include trade-offs like small screens and anemic performance.

The 2020 Dell XPS 17 offers a very good balance between computing power and portability. Six or so hours of battery life in a UHD+ large screen notebook is really pretty good. That's what makes the battery draw issue seem so stupid and frustrating. Dell literally snatched defeat from the jaws of victory with that power adaptor blunder.

Sorry to hear about the hospital stay! hope you're well mate.

Look i like the Dell XPS series laptops. i dont think i'd own one again for myself, but i would time over time suggest one to others. we'll be upgrading out office to dell XPS laptops hopefully by the end of the year.

Yes them going USBc for power delivery is stupid. IMO it should have had both, a power brick and the option to use USB c PD.
My 9980HK uses 107w on full load. that would leave nothing for the GPU.
its rare for creators to use full load GPU and CPU at all times so i can see the compromise as it isnt a gaming laptop. But yes, it should have the option for a 230w powerbrick.
A bit of battery drain when you're exporting a video or rendering something, i could live with it. because 90% of the time, the CPU & GPU wont be on full load.

i still wouldn't be knocking i9s in laptops. Im using my Aero15s i9 right now. and have had other i9 laptops in the past. Asus zenbook pro duo i9 earlier on.
i can show you a log of me running cinebench r20 (which is very very demanding) with out it throttling just to show you a thin laptop and push some serious power.
But 10th gen i7's are pretty much the 9th gen i9. both have 8c 16t. both have very similar base and boost frequencies. the 10th gen i9 is just a frequency boost.

 

[kcollinsdesign]

For graphic design, sales, internet, accounting and correspondence I use Apple laptops. If you buy into the Apple ecosystem, everything works exceptionally well (iPhone, Macs, tablets, iCloud). For dedicated production I use whatever I have lying around (mostly older Macs), and for more demanding applications a purpose-spec'd desktop (usually a custom built PC running Windows).
Trying to get a laptop to do everything is false economy.
I would advise not being dissuaded by the Mac haters. Once you become comfortable with the Mac OS and Apple ecosystem, you will likely spend less time fussing with computers and more time getting things done. The initial cost becomes irrelevant.
Note: I use a Dell Ultrasharp monitor with almost 100% AdobeRGB and sRGB coverage for color-critical tasks. I have an LG Ultrafine 4000k at home. I also use an assortment of keyboards, including a Das Keyboard 4 pro for Mac mechanical (amazing typing experience - try one) and an Apple wireless tenkeyless (not as fast, but fine for home). Comfort is king, and my production goes way up. And I don't worry about spilling coffee on my laptop!

 

[WildWestDesigns]

For graphic design, sales, internet, accounting and correspondence I use Apple laptops. If you buy into the Apple ecosystem, everything works exceptionally well (iPhone, Macs, tablets, iCloud).

That explains why my wife had the known kernel overheat issue plague her laptop. Why her iPhone crapped out after just 2 yrs of use. The butterfly keyboard issue. It all just works. I remember when the keyboard issue was first making the rounds, if I remember correctly, Apple was trying to lay blame on the customers saying that they weren't cleaning or treating the keyboards right or some bunk like that, before they admitted to the issue.

Then, of course, you had the launch issues for High Sierra and Catalina. The root issues for not only the main OS, but when trying to fix the main OS there was the issue with their App Store as well. Now granted, when it comes to OS and update/upgrades, Windows is still king on the issues, but the point it, it hasn't been perfect for Apple and OSX either.

This isn't even getting into their stance on right to repair (and how it's determined for computers (even if you have no intention of doing repair work on your own computer or upgrading an existing computer) this does affect other industries as well).

Now, if you were to totally give into their ecosystem, sure it'll be fine. There are some things that Apple has done that are better then Windows, but I wouldn't say that they always "just work". No OEM is without it's faults, but I typically hold Apple to a higher standard since they do have their ultimate control on the entire production line moreso then MS and with going to Silicone that's just another layer of control. Unfortunately all this brings about other concerns.

 

[Bobby H]

Sorry to hear about the hospital stay! hope you're well mate.

Thanks. One of my girlfriend's former co-workers passed away this week from a very aggressive infection that moved from his arm and into his chest. They amputated his arm below the elbow in an attempt to stop the infection. That gave me a new perspective on why they kept me in the hospital overnight on IV antibiotics after I partially shredded my finger. Not too many people sterilize their lawn care tools.

Trying to get a laptop to do everything is false economy.

I'm not trying to get a laptop to do everything. But I do want something that is going to be powerful enough to do a lot of graphics tasks, but not top of the line powerful where it has to be near a wall outlet 100% of the time. The 2020 XPS 17 looked like just the thing I needed, until that stupid AC power issue pretty much killed the deal. I'm seeing other complaints in the field about XPS 15 and 17 systems running way too hot as well.

Stressing this again: I'm NOT buying a desktop system. I have my leg chained to a computer desk most of the day. I'm not going to sit at another desk in some back room when I need to do computer related tasks at home. I want to at least be able to see the TV in the living room or even have the option to leave the house and do that computer work somewhere else. If I have to sit at a computer desk I'll just stay at the office and work late.

I would advise not being dissuaded by the Mac haters. Once you become comfortable with the Mac OS and Apple ecosystem, you will likely spend less time fussing with computers and more time getting things done. The initial cost becomes irrelevant.

If I didn't use CorelDRAW at all or any other sign industry specific software at all it would be easier going the Mac route (I have a lot of old Windows-specific Postscript Type 1 fonts I still use too). The sign industry is now more Windows-centric than ever. Corel has compounded its own Mac vs Windows situation by not allowing cross platform upgrades. That's not even figuring in the ridiculous pricing, upgrades and subscription policies.

I'm not anti-Apple. I have large iPad Pro that's great for certain tasks. But I am definitely not a fan at all of Apple's notebooks. Next to nothing in them can be upgraded at all. The notebook stays in the configuration in which it was ordered for the life of the product. And Apple sure makes the customer pay a GIANT premium on any upgrades. The RAM and most other components are soldered into the chassis. The 2020 Dell XPS didn't do that. You could order one with a modest amount of Dell's junky RAM and replace it with far better quality after market RAM and save a lot of money in the process. Same goes for the SSDs.

 

[greysquirrel]

Sorry Apple fan boy here...running the trashcan Mac Pro since 2013 zero issues...still fast enough for all design work. just installed a 2tb ssd in about an hour carbon copy cloned/no data loss...MacBook Pro for away from office work. Spend the money, max it out...I upgrade every 5-6 years...zero issues.

 

[kcollinsdesign]

Thanks. One of my girlfriend's former co-workers passed away this week from a very aggressive infection that moved from his arm and into his chest. They amputated his arm below the elbow in an attempt to stop the infection. That gave me a new perspective on why they kept me in the hospital overnight on IV antibiotics after I partially shredded my finger. Not too many people sterilize their lawn care tools.



I'm not trying to get a laptop to do everything. But I do want something that is going to be powerful enough to do a lot of graphics tasks, but not top of the line powerful where it has to be near a wall outlet 100% of the time. The 2020 XPS 17 looked like just the thing I needed, until that stupid AC power issue pretty much killed the deal. I'm seeing other complaints in the field about XPS 15 and 17 systems running way too hot as well.

Stressing this again: I'm NOT buying a desktop system. I have my leg chained to a computer desk most of the day. I'm not going to sit at another desk in some back room when I need to do computer related tasks at home. I want to at least be able to see the TV in the living room or even have the option to leave the house and do that computer work somewhere else. If I have to sit at a computer desk I'll just stay at the office and work late.



If I didn't use CorelDRAW at all or any other sign industry specific software at all it would be easier going the Mac route (I have a lot of old Windows-specific Postscript Type 1 fonts I still use too). The sign industry is now more Windows-centric than ever. Corel has compounded its own Mac vs Windows situation by not allowing cross platform upgrades. That's not even figuring in the ridiculous pricing, upgrades and subscription policies.

I'm not anti-Apple. I have large iPad Pro that's great for certain tasks. But I am definitely not a fan at all of Apple's notebooks. Next to nothing in them can be upgraded at all. The notebook stays in the configuration in which it was ordered for the life of the product. And Apple sure makes the customer pay a GIANT premium on any upgrades. The RAM and most other components are soldered into the chassis. The 2020 Dell XPS didn't do that. You could order one with a modest amount of Dell's junky RAM and replace it with far better quality after market RAM and save a lot of money in the process. Same goes for the SSDs.

I guess I just look at it differently. It costs about $60/month for my MacBook Pro (quad core i5/16GB/512GB SSD) with AppleCare. In three years I can buy a new one, or just keep using the old one until it breaks. It runs all the design software I can throw at it with ease. That's less than $2/day. Doesn't require much thought.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I guess I just look at it differently. It costs about $60/month for my MacBook Pro (quad core i5/16GB/512GB SSD) with AppleCare. In three years I can buy a new one, or just keep using the old one until it breaks. It runs all the design software I can throw at it with ease. That's less than $2/day. Doesn't require much thought.

Those specs match my NUC, which comes out to $45.83 per month. Well, I do have a 1TB SSD, but otherwise it's the same. Without actually knowing performance specs that is, just based on what you gave. I can run Blender on it, but doing renders (especially 4k) may have some issues, just depends on the scene.

 

[kcollinsdesign]

Those specs match my NUC, which comes out to $45.83 per month. Well, I do have a 1TB SSD, but otherwise it's the same. Without actually knowing performance specs that is, just based on what you gave. I can run Blender on it, but doing renders (especially 4k) may have some issues, just depends on the scene.

The NUCs are nice, but I have an abundance of old PC carcasses that I can make into what I need (lots of fans and bays). If I were starting new with PCs, I would want a NUC for the form factor!
I have a couple of Mac minis (I am addicted to Mac OS) that are amazingly reliable and still can be pressed into service. I started using the MacBooks for portability, but they tend to crap out after 3-4 years. They are handy, though.

 

[Jester]

Bobby H It's too bad that the unit you really want has a flaw. I feel your pain!

Since we are all airing our opinions and preferences, I'll chime in with another viewpoint. By my way of thinking the 17" laptops I've owned are just too large and heavy. I consider them to be occasionally-portable all-in-one desktops. I find I end up leaving them home more than I carry them, unlike a smaller laptop.
I'm a big fan of my 4K touchscreen Dell XPS 13. Powerful, small, light, quiet, and has proved to be very durable over the years I've owned it.
When you do need more screen real estate you can easily plug an external monitor to the USB-C port. I prefer two screens to one large one for many tasks.

 

[rjssigns]

My two cents, not that anyone wants to hear it. Regarding the MacBook Pro I agree with KCollins. There is another PC that I've seen in action and I like. It's the Surface Pro.

While most students run MacBook Pro's some run the Surface Pro. I have students on both platforms that are so good they make me question what I'm doing.

To the point: Coursework plus social media and whatever else they do I have yet to hear one student complain about speed, battery life, or anything regarding the hardware. Only thing I hear is; "Have you seen my external drive?"

 

[Bobby H]

Since we are all airing our opinions and preferences, I'll chime in with another viewpoint. By my way of thinking the 17" laptops I've owned are just too large and heavy.

The 2020 Dell XPS 17" is similar in size to many 15" notebooks. The screen has hardly any bezel at all and it's a taller 16:10 aspect ration (hence the 1980 X 1200 and 3840 X 2400 screen resolutions). It weighs under 6 pounds in its top configuration. It would fit in the same case I bought for my old Dell XPS 15.

My two cents, not that anyone wants to hear it. Regarding the MacBook Pro I agree with KCollins. There is another PC that I've seen in action and I like. It's the Surface Pro.

Other people are free to purchase whatever notebook they like. I'd be far more likely to buy a Surface Pro than a MacBook Pro.

Aside from my previous gripes, I wouldn't risk buying a new Apple desktop or notebook computer until well after their transition from Intel to ARM is complete. Just even on the topic of CorelDRAW getting a Mac at this current time is bad news. Corel is having a hard enough time as it is getting its Mac version of CorelDRAW fixed properly. Now they're looking at the prospect of having to maintain Intel and ARM-based versions for OSX. I don't think Corel has the resources to do that. Corel will be forced to make a choice on which code base it wants to maintain. Even Adobe won't maintain both Intel and ARM code bases forever. I remember the transitions from the classic MacOS to OSX and the change from PowerPC to Intel. Apple is notorious quickly for sunsetting old versions of its OS and other software; they're only going to maintain the Intel version of OSX for what may be just a short amount of time. When they pull the plug that will mean no more running Windows natively on Apple-branded hardware.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Aside from my previous gripes, I wouldn't risk buying a new Apple desktop or notebook computer until well after their transition from Intel to ARM is complete. Just even on the topic of CorelDRAW getting a Mac at this current time is bad news. Corel is having a hard enough time as it is getting its Mac version of CorelDRAW fixed properly. Now they're looking at the prospect of having to maintain Intel and ARM-based versions for OSX. I don't think Corel has the resources to do that.

In some instances, just getting an ARM build is as simple as changing flags in the build process. Now that doesn't mean that it runs efficiently or well on the ARM platform versus the x86 or vice versa depending on what platform it was coded for first, but getting an ARM build in of itself isn't an issue.

In some ways, this actually goes in favor of programs built with more scripting languages. Usually can have one code base that works on all major platforms including different archs. Now there are drawbacks of course compared to low level languages, but the drawback of maintaining more then one codebase isn't there. That's why all the little programs that I make are done with scripting languages and then "frozen" for different platforms/archs. Other then one line of code for Darwin systems (Apple), they are all fundamentally the same and I can easily comment that one line of code out if needed, sometimes not needed, it's just ignored by the other platforms.

As to this:

When they pull the plug that will mean no more running Windows natively on Apple-branded hardware.

Yes and no. For the UNIX-like OSs (my favorite Linux and for the BSD derivative OSX) you have WINE (and there are commercial variants such as CrossOver) and that works very much like WSL (which really should be LSW, but I digress), by translating system calls from Windows to an UNIX-like OS. Now WINE will run on ARM, it's a very portable layer, so in that regard it should be possible to run x86 on ARM without having to deal with traditional emulation (not the same as virtualization, close, but one key distinction and it's that distinction that causes emulation to have big performance hits compared to virtualization) which would be about the only other way to get this to work and that would not be good for production use at this point in time.

Edit to add:

I should mention that WINE is very much like Rosetta. Translates system calls from one instruction set to another (which I think we are going to get Rosetta 2.0 during this transition). At one time, that's how Inkscape and GIMP were ported onto Android (I don't think that side project (wasn't official though either of those groups) is still around, but it did work, I had it on my older phones). So technically not emulating hardware like you would with traditional emulation (the above mentioned key difference between emulation and virtualization).