From Layering to Printed? Gloss Vinyl Printer Questions

[L&Bdesignworks]

Hi there-

I'm looking to find a better way to make some decals with a gloss design on top of matte black and a color boarder. I've been layering to this point, but want to step up my game.

I've been designing and selling decals over the last 3 years. Started out as a side hustle (while a full time designer at a trade show House), but ended up making it a full time job.

See attached for some examples of my layered work. I'd like to try and do this in one piece if possible. Most of all the decals I have are less than 24" wide, but I'd be interested in a little more width (slight space constraint with basement shop).

Currently using a Graphtec CE7000-60.

Some questions:
-Is this a situation where the whole thing would be printed, gloss color, matte black and gloss black?

-Would the color and gloss be printed on top of a matte black?

-Would it be better to have a layered base, but print the gloss ink on top of a matte black?


I reached out a while back to US Cutter, and basically they said my only option (from them) was a machine that was around $45k, and another that was $60k or so. I find that hard to believe that there's not something more reasonable out there, so any help or ideas would be appreciated!

I tried some searching on the forum, but didn't quite know what to search for, so sorry if this is easily addressed!


store.lbdesignworks.com for some other examples

 

[balstestrat]

Get a wider cutter?
Start printing stuff?

 

[L&Bdesignworks]

Get a wider cutter?
Start printing stuff?

I'm looking to print these styles of decals instead of cutting and layering. Hoping to speed up my process with less weeding, and also making the installation easier for customers basically.

I don't necessarily need to go to a larger machine, but it looks like most of the printers are all pretty much larger than the 24" graphtec, so I'm open to up sizing the cutter too if needed.

 

[balstestrat]

Then you need a printer with a clear option to achieve that strong of a effect. If you do it without clear ink, you can't get that gloss to pop out of the matt so strong. Then comes the 2nd problem, you need white ink to underlay on anything else than white material or you can't make the color pop out well.
You best go and do some samples with your files because I think you might be disapointed to how different the printed output will be. Or at least you need to adjust quite a lot to the printing way of things.

Short: you can't really choose to do glossy and matte ink mixed up.

Take a look at Mimaki UCJV300 maybe?

 

[L&Bdesignworks]

Then you need a printer with a clear option to achieve that strong of a effect. If you do it without clear ink, you can't get that gloss to pop out of the matt so strong. Then comes the 2nd problem, you need white ink to underlay on anything else than white material or you can't make the color pop out well.
You best go and do some samples with your files because I think you might be disapointed to how different the printed output will be. Or at least you need to adjust quite a lot to the printing way of things.

Short: you can't really choose to do glossy and matte ink mixed up.

Take a look at Mimaki UCJV300 maybe?

Thanks, that's a great summary. I'll start there! Thank you!

 

[Gino]

Once you print on a lesser machine, the print needs to be laminated. It will either be rigid lam or liquid lam, but it will be all one sheen. Not various sheens like you want, til you step up to some of the move expensive machines. Keep in mind, you'll need a laminator, so put that into our budget, too.

Your basement is gonna get mighty full, real quick.

 

[Stacey K]

Those decals are really sharp! I can't think of a way to do it without layering because of what Gino said about the lamination. Also the gray looks metallic. Nice work!

 

[L&Bdesignworks]

Once you print on a lesser machine, the print needs to be laminated. It will either be rigid lam or liquid lam, but it will be all one sheen. Not various sheens like you want, til you step up to some of the move expensive machines. Keep in mind, you'll need a laminator, so put that into our budget, too.

Your basement is gonna get mighty full, real quick.

Thank you for the tips... That's what I'm worried about. I'll add new house with bigger basement to the shopping list

And is the "lesser machine" like $15k ish, and the more expensive upwards of $30k? Just trying to wrap my head around things.

 

[L&Bdesignworks]

Those decals are really sharp! I can't think of a way to do it without layering because of what Gino said about the lamination. Also the gray looks metallic. Nice work!

Thank you! I've been doing it this way for 3 years, and just saw someone who basically is doing the same thing and the gloss is definitely printed. (There was a closeup video of the printer working). I'm pretty sure they won't want to share their secrets with me

 

[Stacey K]

Thank you! I've been doing it this way for 3 years, and just saw someone who basically is doing the same thing and the gloss is definitely printed. (There was a closeup video of the printer working). I'm pretty sure they won't want to share their secrets with me

Can you share the video? Maybe these guys can figure it out - or PM it to one of them if you don't want to share it will everyone.

 

[L&Bdesignworks]

Can you share the video? Maybe these guys can figure it out - or PM it to one of them if you don't want to share it will everyone.

Sure- you can see it a little bit down on their "black on black" section

Adventure Life USA

Adventure Life USA offers a thrilling range of vehicle graphics, off road decals, and emblem stickers designed specifically for Jeep, Toyota, Ford and off-road enthusiasts. Elevate your vehicle's style and showcase your adventurous spirit with our high-quality products.

adventurelifedecals.com

And I definitely don't want to come off as if I'm trying to steal anything from them at anything like that. I just want to stay competitive in the market with my existing designs.

 

[balstestrat]

That's HP Latex printing on it. I guess you can make it seem very "pop" like that. But it looks different when the ink dries.
Cheapest is like $10k so there you go. Not very big secret...

 

[Stacey K]

So are they printing it on matte black vinyl then just adding the black ink and not laminating the ink?

 

[rjssigns]

UV printer with clear will easily create those types of effects. Problem is durability. UV ink isn't like solvent or latex and prints don't take laminate very well since the ink sits on the vinyl.

 

[unclebun]

No matter what printer you do it with, whether you print color or clear, you will have to consider the decal temporary use only. None of the print methods will last without lamination. Even if you start with matte colorchange wrap vinyl and print the gloss effect on it, the print will not last. And if you then laminate over the top of it, you ruin the print effect.

 

[victor bogdanov]

You could do this with a Colorado 1650, print matte black on gloss black vinyl or the other way around. Or run it through the printer twice printing gloss colors then matte like canon marketing says you could do, would take some experimenting

 

[victor bogdanov]

I've played around with it and it looks great, I would trust it for a few years without lam, there is a canon video where the laminated half a car and no laminate on the other color and 6-9 months in no difference between the two sides, kept outside, hundreds of car washes etc

 

[L&Bdesignworks]

I've played around with it and it looks great, I would trust it for a few years without lam, there is a canon video where the laminated half a car and no laminate on the other color and 6-9 months in no difference between the two sides, kept outside, hundreds of car washes etc

That video is a big help, thank you!

That's good to know about the durability tests there as well.

 

[L&Bdesignworks]

No matter what printer you do it with, whether you print color or clear, you will have to consider the decal temporary use only. None of the print methods will last without lamination. Even if you start with matte colorchange wrap vinyl and print the gloss effect on it, the print will not last. And if you then laminate over the top of it, you ruin the print effect.

That's a good point. Laminating any print has been a concern of mine for any of the vehicle decals I would do (gloss accent or otherwise). I definitely don't want to sell anything that in a year or so people start coming back with problems.

 

[victor bogdanov]

That video is a big help, thank you!

That's good to know about the durability tests there as well.

"
What happens when you apply a standard industry car wrapping media, printed on the Canon Colorado 1650 to a car… and you laminate the side panels, but leave the hood portion unlaminated, and then subject it to 6 months and 5 days of punishing Chicago weather? We put it to the test and the results are in!

After the test period, we brought the car in for some measurement testing to compare the color shift between the panels and hood. We measured this in Delta-E (dE), and what we found was astonishing. The Delta-E in the black was .56 and in the orange was only 1.04. Industry standard for highest acceptable color shift is typically 2.0, but our score shows minimal noticeable shift in color and well within the tolerances and industry standards of measurement.

The car remained outdoors in the harsh northwest Indiana and Chicagoland weather. It was driven to over 350 job/construction sites and traveled over 12,000 miles. The car was subjected to snow, slush, and harsh temperatures, and passed through 24 car washes over the 189-day test period. Despiste all of this, the wrap had little to no discernible difference to the human eye.
"