Frosted Crystal App Tape Fail

[paul luszcz]

We're trying to install a 3' x 7' piece of 3M Frosted Crystal vinyl (with a group of names and some simple graphics knocked out) and keep having trouble with our application tape.

When we try to remove the backer sheet in order to apply it to the glass, most elements stay on the backer not the transfer tape.

We've used this materials for years and years and have used the same transfer tape (R Tape Conform High Tack) for all those years without problems. We have already lost two $180 pieces of vinyl and need to solve the problem.

We wrote to 3M but have not received a response.

Can anyone recommend a transfer tape that works well with 3M Frosted Crystal vinyl?

 

[player]

3m makes high tack trans tape.

 

[Marlene]

I use 3M SCPM-3 and had the same problems. had to buy a super high tack tape. I jsut looked in the core to see what it is and all I have is that is it Main Tape, no numbers for it. surprised if you re using a high tack that it doens't work. I finally just gave up on this crappy vinyl and when I need to do a job using the dusted crystal, I buy it pre-cut from Gregory and haven't had any issues getting all the parts off the backing. you could try calling them and asking what they use and if they sell it

 

[nashvillesigns]

when you are applying it, is it warm? the only thing i can think of, is the #M was cut too deep into the paper.
what squeegee did you use?

 

[paul luszcz]

We've been testing it here in our shop where it's 70 degrees and it still fails. We use Gold 3M squeegees.

I'll check the depth to see if we're cutting too deep and I'll call Gregory to see if they can help.

If anyone has a specific brand/model tape to recommend please do. In the meantime I'll see what the highest tack tape I can find is.

 

[shoresigns]

These may or may not be obvious, but here are a few pointers no one mentioned.

1. After you pre-mask the graphic, always go over the "trouble" spots with a squeegee to make sure they stick to the transfer tape.
2. Don't switch to a higher-tack masking tape, unless you want to wait even longer for the graphics to dry before you can remove the pre-mask.
3. Maybe try a different application fluid? We use Rapid-Tac for frosted, or Rapid-Tac II for cold installs. Never use soapy water for pre-masked vinyl, as it will often release the graphics from the pre-mask so they slide down the window. Baby shampoo is OK though.

Also, Mactac frosted is really easy to work with, compared to others I've used.

 

[paul luszcz]

We do squegee the app tape down pretty hard before trying to transfer the film. We never get to the point of using application fluid. The graphic is ruined before it gets anywhere near the glass. Part of the graphic goes with the transfer tape and parts go with the backer. Putting it all back together would take forever.

I don't mind waiting to remove the transfer tape, compared to ruining $180 film, that's easy.

What has changed to cause this?

 

[J Hill Designs]

are you trying to remove the graphic from the backer (pulling the graphic off) or the backer from the graphic (face down pulling the backing off)

I always find the latter the better way to go with this stuff

 

[shoresigns]

We do squegee the app tape down pretty hard before trying to transfer the film. We never get to the point of using application fluid. The graphic is ruined before it gets anywhere near the glass. Part of the graphic goes with the transfer tape and parts go with the backer. Putting it all back together would take forever.

I don't mind waiting to remove the transfer tape, compared to ruining $180 film, that's easy.

What has changed to cause this?

Are there diamonds embedded in the 3M film? I would pay $38, including waste, for a 3'x7' piece of frosted vinyl.

 

[HIGHSPEEDGRAPHIX]

You need hi-tack. i use Conform 3075 on my 3m dusted and frosted crystal projects

 

[HIGHSPEEDGRAPHIX]

someone also noted not to use soapy water, I do with dusted and frosted crystal cut graphics with pre-mask.....Use a Bottle with water, one drop of baby shampoo and you will be good. mist the film and Wet the glass more than the vinyl. after you apply you will need to let dry a bit before removing pre-mask. i always spray the pre-mask a couple min. before i peel it.

 

[HIGHSPEEDGRAPHIX]

are you trying to remove the graphic from the backer (pulling the graphic off) or the backer from the graphic (face down pulling the backing off)

I always find the latter the better way to go with this stuff

yes i do the same, i would bear up against wall graphics side in and remove the back linear, its easier that way and you can see if anything starts lifting with that clear linear.

 

[HIGHSPEEDGRAPHIX]

Paul one more thought. If your piece if 3' X 7', what size is the logo? I would only pre-mask the logo portion, and also the top or leading edge with a 2" strip of pre-mask runner to keep it from stretching when peeling. I would peel and slap, no hinge on that one too. just get that window soaked first.

 

[SightLine]

3M recommends SPCS-2 for pre-spacing, SPCM-3 for pre-masking. SPCM-3 is a very low tack tape, SPCS-2 is a high tack tape. I'd think any very high tack tape would work though. I have run into the same issue to an extent - I think its because of the every so slightly matte/textured finish of the frosted vinyl. I just make sure to go over it pretty hard with a squeegee before trying to pull it from the backing. If needed (depending on the size) you might need a helper to cleanly remove it from the backing and remove the backing from the vinyl sort of rolling it off, not the vinyl and tape from the backing. Hard to explain that part...

 

[gabagoo]

you simply need high tack pre mask...The vinyl really likes to stick to that polyester liner

 

[geb]

are you trying to remove the graphic from the backer (pulling the graphic off) or the backer from the graphic (face down pulling the backing off)

I always find the latter the better way to go with this stuff

I was wondering if this would help also.

George

 

[GVP]

are you trying to remove the graphic from the backer (pulling the graphic off) or the backer from the graphic (face down pulling the backing off)

I always find the latter the better way to go with this stuff

+1