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Frustrated...

Discussion in 'Corel' started by Ladypainter, Apr 13, 2004.

  1. Ladypainter

    Ladypainter Member

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    I think my boss is going to push the VersaCamm through. I've been told by the supply company that we will probably have to use a different software, such as Corel. I am so used to Omega...does anyone know if I will still be able to use it for layouts with the new printer?

    We have Corel 9 here at home, and when I open it up and try to poke around, it is so overwhelming...I don't even know where to start.

    Any suggestions?
    LP
     
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  2. Dennis Raap

    Dennis Raap Active Member

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    LP, have you looked at the Tutor in Corel it may help? If you get the VersaCamm let us know how well you like it the price seems right but I don't know :help:
     
  3. Shovelhead

    Shovelhead Major Contributor

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    My first sign job....

    required me to design in Composer (Omega)....
    I don't know how I kept from pulling my hair out....
    I now only use Omega strictly as a cut program.....
    I import .CMX files and plot....
    Think you might feel the same way!
     
  4. Baz

    Baz Very Active Member

    Strange that Omega wouldnt support an Inkjet printer. It probably does (though i dont know).
    You could desing your job in Omega then export it to another program to ouput it. But trouble with that is more often than not you'd have to re-adjust the colors in your final output file.

    As far as being overwhelmed with Corel, i was in the same situation when i wanted to learn Illustrator and only had experience with Graphix Advantage and Casmate.

    What i did was i only installed Illustrator on my computer so that forced me to learn it. Got a great book for it and it really didnt take long to learn. Im sure it would be the same for you with Corel. You allready know how to work with a vector program, so you just have to learn Corel's names for their tools and learn their toolbars.

    I think you'd be surprised how fast you'd pick up on it.
     
  5. Fred Weiss

    Fred Weiss Merchant Member

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    A great resource for Corel training and information is Foster Coburn's Graphic Unleashed Website.

    He has a newsletter and tons of archived information at his site.
     
  6. Ladypainter

    Ladypainter Member

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    Mind over Matter...

    This could get long...*sigh*

    LP, have you looked at the Tutor in Corel it may help?
    Yes...but it seemed to be more like something my kids would turn in for a class project instead of something I would turn out for a sign job. Perhaps there's an additional tutor that I need to see?

    My first sign job....
    required me to design in Composer (Omega)....
    I don't know how I kept from pulling my hair out....
    I now only use Omega strictly as a cut program.....
    I import .CMX files and plot....
    Think you might feel the same way!
    I think you may be right...something we have addressed here before...it's all in what you get used to. Hubby and I poked around Corel some more this evening. I was amazed at some of the things we did with ease that require 10x the effort on Omega! I'm taking the Corel to work tomorrow and installing it there & instead of playing the "fishy" game at lunch, I will try my current jobs on Corel. I'm not going to get pissed that I'm spending my lunch on something that the company should be paying for...I'll get them back, I'm sure...LOL

    Strange that Omega wouldnt support an Inkjet printer. It probably does (though i dont know).
    Not sure either. Going to take some files when we go for the demo. Will keep everyone posted. Considering that Omega lets you convert to almost any file type, I should still be able to use it...however...thinking that I need to expand beyond one program? The problem is that the salesman told me he had a customer who always used Gerber and was now attempting to switch to Corel because he bought a VersaCamm...there must be a reason for this, which is why I am freaking.

    Fred...as always, I much appreciate the info. Just one question...why did you have to put it in RED?
    VersaCamm
    I mean...ANY other color! All I see is VersaCamm ...even in my sleep!

    I think you should at the very least pick up some percentage of my shrink bill....

    :biggrin: LP
     
  7. Fred Weiss

    Fred Weiss Merchant Member

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    Gerber supports their own inkjet printers, the Jetster and the Elan.

    I'm headed for the ISA show on Saturday in Orlando with looking at the Versacamm at the top of my list.

    Not sure what you're using for image editing, but if you get a Versacamm I would think you will need Photoshop to supplement Corel.

    [​IMG]

    The doctor is in.
     
  8. Dennis Raap

    Dennis Raap Active Member

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    LP, you are right the tutor is very basic had a brain freeze couldn't think of the site that Fred mentioned.

    Fred, could you let us know what your thoughts are on the VersacCamm after you get back from the show?
     
  9. Ladypainter

    Ladypainter Member

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    Not sure what you're using for image editing, but if you get a Versacamm I would think you will need Photoshop to supplement Corel.

    Have Photoshop (old stripped down version 5...someone gave to me) and the Corel we have also came with Corel Photo Paint 9, although I haven't used it.

    Yes...please post ASAP after the show!



    :thankyou:
     
  10. OldPaint

    OldPaint Major Contributor

    here in lies the most basic problem with most new people in this business...ITS SUPPOSED TO NOT BE THIS HARD or DARN CANT I DO THIS WITH OUT LEARNING HOW TO USE THESE STUPID PROGRAMS????????? well this is why they call it a PROFESSION!
    and yes virginia..you do HAVE TO LEARN TO USE THESE PROGRAMS!! now all you need is time and a lot of effort on your part to become proficient in corel.
    i tell people this about corel(ive been using it since version 3 and a 386 computer)pick a version, and you got 2-4 year learing curve to master all it can do. 1-2 yrs and you can use one or two of its capabilities.
    now we move on to corel PHOTOPAINT/PHOTOSHOP either one is not a walk in the park for a learning curve.....YOU ARE the only one who can get you proficient in any program. if you cant "self teach" then you need to find someone or a VOTECH/HIGH SCHOOL that offers evening classes for these programs.
    i put many hours infront of a computer , cussing and kicking trying to figure out how to do the simplest things....but you aint gona learn it unless you DIVE INTO IT. and unless your sitting here with me..i cant tell you how to do most things.....
     
  11. Dennis Raap

    Dennis Raap Active Member

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    LP, here is a Logo I built up in Photo Paint 9 I used a few plugins to help, it is constructed using several different layers. We printed this out on our Edge 2 for our trucks. ( we have since closed the excavating business went to full time helping my wife in the sign business )

    Give Photo Paint a try you can build some great signs once you get the hang of it.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Baz

    Baz Very Active Member

    That's pretty sweet looking Dennis .. Nice job:thumb:
     
  13. Ladypainter

    Ladypainter Member

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    Very nice, Dennis!
    :cool1:

    Question on the Corel: Once you design something there, is there a way to apply a cut line, or do you have to export it to a different software?

    The VersaCamm comes with some sort of software to allow for plotting as well.

    LP
     
  14. geb

    geb Very Active Member

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    LP, the two programs I've heard the most about for cutting in Corel are Co-Cut and Signtools 3. I run Corel 9 at the day job, was exporting to Anagraph, then cutting, until they bought the Signtools software. I think it runs about $200, not sure on Co-Cut. The support has been good. Usually it takes a day to respond by email, I think they're in Australia. If you buy this program from a vendor in the US, I'd recommend asking if there's any support phone #'s in the US to get same day service for any problems.

    By the way, I'm pretty happy with signtools, but have heard good things about Co-Cut.

    George
     
  15. Dennis Raap

    Dennis Raap Active Member

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    LP, for this sign I built it up in Photo Paint and then applied the cuts afterward in FlexiSign Pro. If it is just a shape or letters that I want to apply effects to I will create the shape or letters in a vector program then take a copy convert it to a bitmap bring the bitmap in to Photo Paint. The first thing I do before I start working on the effects that I want is to create an object that is slighly larger than the original (that way when the bitmap is exported back to Flexi and cut there will not be a white line around the inside of the cut) use the larger object as your base to build your different layers for the desired effects. When finished export the bitmap back in to the vector program (Flexi or what ever you are using) center the bitmap up with the original vector if every thing is done correctly you are then ready to print and cut. Be sure to save a copy of the bitmap in the native format such as Photo Paint, Photo Shop or what ever that way if you want to make changes to the bitmap you still have the original with layers to go back to.

    I know it sounds confusing now but once you get the hang of it you can do some great effects. :biggrin:
     
  16. Ladypainter

    Ladypainter Member

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    George & Dennis

    Thanks so much for all the tips! I agree...it sounds difficult, but I'm sure when I break it down and apply it, it probably isn't so bad. Sort of like when someone gives you directions to a place you've never been :biggrin:

    I'm actually looking forward to the challenge now!
    :thankyou:
     
  17. Baz

    Baz Very Active Member

    LP ... the program that came with the versacamm is a rip software ... It will send the cutting information as well to the device ... But in Flexi, before you send it to cut ... You have to give your vector shape a contour cut value (that is in Flexi).

    For Corel or Illustrator users that send their files directly to the rip software ... You have to create a spot color in your color swatch and name it "Contour Cut", chose this color for your cutline ... The rip program suposedly sees it as a cutline. If you dont do that .. it will just print your line and not cut it.

    Now i never done this since i have Flexi but i read this many times in the Roland forum. Check to see if Omega has that "Contour cut" feature as well.

    Like anything ... start by printing small letters and see if they cut ... Lots of tests, trials and errors ahead for you but it is a verry excitting tool to have in the shop!!

    Good luck LP
     
  18. Ladypainter

    Ladypainter Member

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    Yep! I'm very excited. I did see the Roland forums, so I'm sure there will be plenty of help there. Also, the VersaCamm is friction fed and they told me it would take all the way down to 8 inch pieces of material. I'm sure we have lots of scrap around here to mess around with! That's also so much better than the edge. Sometimes you lose lots of material on the foils.

    Did I mention that I was E*X*C*I*T*E*D???:biggrin: Waiting for one more piece of info from the supply company about the different lease options & then it's off to the big boss office to REALLY beg.

    LOL...thanks again!
     
  19. Fred Weiss

    Fred Weiss Merchant Member

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    Report from the ISA Show

    We went to the ISA show in Orlando this past Saturday and spent a fair amount of time looking at the Roland Versacamm. Here are my impressions:

    1. This is a 30" inkjet print and cut device using Ecosolvent inks.

    2. There is currently no competition for the machine in the size, price range, and type of work it outputs unless you go to thermal resin systems such as offered by Summa.

    3. Of the types of inkjets that have been shown in the past, this year almost everything shown for smaller sign shops is either the Versacamm or the Mimaki JV3 at twice the size and price.

    Positives:

    The output is beautiful and both the device and the software appear to be competent.

    Production costs are fairly low. An average yield for a CMYK ink set is said to be 900 square feet. The ink cartridge set lists for $300, so if they are near accurate, the ink cost is 30¢ per square foot.

    Negatives:

    Testing a sample I brought back, a wipe with denatured alcohol immediately removed all ink in its path. Naphtha had the same result. So the conclusion is that the output has virtually no solvent resistance.

    Further testing with a white, non-abrasive eraser resulted in complete ink removal with little effort.

    It should be noted that repeating the same solvent and abrasion tests on output from the Mimaki JV3 (a true solvent inkjet) produced identical results.

    Conclusion: Solvent and Ecosolvent inkjets provide state of the art imaging and sunfade resistance, but for vehicle graphics and other situations that may be in adverse conditions, overlaminating is necessary.

    Laminating machines is another surprise ...... there is no available 30" laminator! Models in the 42" and up range add another $7000 to $10,000 to the price of a complete system.

    :signs101:
     
  20. Ladypainter

    Ladypainter Member

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    Thanks Fred...

    I kinda sorta knew that some of the stuff would have to be laminated. I have researched some cold laminators in the $1500^ range, though, in the 45" size. Can't remember the brand, tho...will try to re-research it sometime soon. Some peeps were talking about them on another message board and had good things to say.

    I have to also laminate my Gerber Edge stuff if I need it to last a long time or if it will be in "finger poking" territory (such as our map signs). I discovored a long time ago that you could erase the foil color away. I mistakenly marked a print with the silver from my ring and tried to erase it...went all the way through to the vinyl...WAAAAAAAAA Never applied chemicals directly to the print. The laminate we use is scratch/UV/chemical resistant...pretty neat stuff.

    Thanks again for the report...do you think it is still a good option for those of us who do not do vehicles? There's really no call for it here.

    :thankyou:
     

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