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Gatorfoam situation and using solvent-based spray adhesive with vinyl graphics?

Doyle

Doyle

New Member
I made a mistake on choosing the materials for this project and now I am trying to fix it. We have 30 photos printed on oracal/orajet 3164, 36" x 60" laminated with oraguard 200 matte. I planned to mount these photos to 3/16" gatorfoam, and that is where we are having trouble. I have seen an old thread where this has been a problem for others, but unfortunately we already have all of the panels cut down to size, and most of the graphics are already printed. We started mounting the graphics to the gatorfoam and have found that we are getting really poor adhesion, the vinyl pulls away from the gatorfoam quite easily. We have tested prepping the surface with isopropyl alcohol with little improvement, so now I am researching using spray adhesives. We tested some spray adhesive on a piece, using sprayaway 66c permanent spray adhesive and the vinyl has bonded quite well. The concern I have is that the spray adhesive is solvent-based, and the adhesive on the vinyl is water-based. Does anyone have experience with this combination? Will the bond fail over time, or is there a better solution to this problem? If I had to replace anything at this point, I suppose I would rather reprint the graphics vs. replacing the substrates, as I have over $1000 worth of gatorfoam cut down for this project.

These photos are going to be permanently installed on the walls of a local supermarket, so long-term performance is important, I just did not anticipate having any issues with the gatorfoam. Any advice that can be offered for this would be greatly appreciated!
 
Brian27

Brian27

New Member
Usually when using contact cement/adhesive you're supposed to apply to both surfaces. I would be weary of any adhesive where that wasn't required. That specific spray says it's for permanent or temporary so I would be hesitant to use it.

I would try 3M 90 or something similar and spray both sides. Problem is spraying solvent adhesives directly onto vinyl might ruin it.

Sprayway also makes more aggressive adhesives. I would call them and ask what they recommend. The finer the spray the better.

An absolute last resort might be to get some cheap 1/16" clear acrylic (or whatever) laminate that to your foam with contact cement, and apply your print to the acrylic. Not sure if that would be cheaper than reprinting. Just an idea.
 
R

Rodan68

New Member
Can you mount the prints to a vinyl with stronger adhesive and then mount to the Gatorboard?
It may be a little thicker but I doubt anyone would notice.
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Easy fix.

Paint both sides of the gator with oil base paint, let dry and then adhere your prints. We do it all the time. You must paint both sides of the gator.

No extra adhesives or more aggressive vinyls will cut it. When doing this, we use the natural gator to save a little money from the white or black, unless the customer want a black return.
 
O

ol'phart

New Member
I agree, Paint both sides of the gatorboard. If you use oil base you will need to prime it first. Semi gloss latex should work well. You have to paint both sides to keep the gatorboard from warping. Good Luck.
 
Doyle

Doyle

New Member
Thanks for the replies! We were already in the process of trying to paint the gatorfoam to see if that would work, so we will continue with that route. If we use latex paint, are there any recommendations as to whether we should use a primer or a top coat latex paint? We are trying to keep the edges black, as we are also attaching some trim to the faces of the boards around Ther edges to give the appearance of picture frames, which will be painted black. We are using a PVC moulding for the trim, hoping it would not warp or distort. We will definitely paint both sides of the gatorfoam.
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
I guess ya could use latex. We have so much oil based paint, that's what we use for everything, except prime.

The old theory about oil paint for this kinda application is.... water-based paints tend to be absorbed by the substrates more readily before drying and can cause more warping than oil-based. As the paint air dries on the surface, it's also seeping into the paper topping. While some oils will penetrate, it won't cause any curling. Just an old theory. Latex paints are better today, then they were 30... 40 years ago, so maybe it's alright, now.

Roller coat the faces and you shouldn't have any on the edges. If you do, black touch up will work and cover any mistakes.

To go a step further, paint the faces with black paint, then anything dripping or splattering will not be seen anyway.
 
D

Drip Dry

New Member
Painting sounds so messy.
Don't know if it would work any better but, there are rolls of glue that you apply like you were laminating to the board. Then
mount the print to the board. Maybe worthwhile looking into.
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Drip Dry said:
Painting sounds so messy.
Don't know if it would work any better but, there are rolls of glue that you apply like you were laminating to the board. Then
mount the print to the board. Maybe worthwhile looking into.
Click to expand...

I guess if you're messy and not set up for it, it could be a challenge, but most sign shops, believe it or not, were all paint shops years ago. We all painted........ and everyday. We painted boards, electric sign faces, metal structures, vehicles, walls, and many other things. We knew what paint to use for which application, too. If ya didn't, ya basically went out of business and started selling cars or gas at a gas station. Yep, back tben, there were attendants who filled your tank, checked your oil and cleaned your windshield...... while you waited in your vehicle. Gas was only 30 cents a gallon. No vinyl or machines or fancy gadgets to rely on or buy back then........ just talent.

Messy, you bet. At the end of the day, my pants could stand up in the corner without me in them. :wink:
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Anything will cup, if you paint just one side. 1/2" plywood, MDO, gator......... tthe drying process causes it. One side will have more tension than the other side. Painting little things won't show as much.
 
DerbyCitySignGuy

DerbyCitySignGuy

New Member
Gino said:
Anything will cup, if you paint just one side. 1/2" plywood, MDO, gator......... tthe drying process causes it. One side will have more tension than the other side. Painting little things won't show as much.
Click to expand...

We usually only paint acrylic, glass, and on 4"x4"s (or larger), so I've never run into that. I try to avoid painting if I can help it.
 
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