Welcome To Signs101.com: Largest Forum for Signmaking Professionals

Signs101.com: Largest Forum for Signmaking Professionals is the LARGEST online community & discussion forum for professional sign-makers and graphic designers.

 


  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Gemini (Acrylic letters) Installation Tips and Tricks?

Discussion in 'Installation Equipment & Techniques' started by AylmerSigns, Jan 18, 2014.

  1. AylmerSigns

    AylmerSigns Member

    33
    0
    0
    Mar 18, 2008
    Good morning all,

    I am to install my first Gemini (most probably Acrylic cut letters, or maybe metal letters - depending on the customer's final decision) lettering on a painted drywall.

    The lettering will be at the entrance of his office, on a wall that is at a standard "view" height. We're talking approximately 6" letters. I may end-up mixing vinyl lettering for smaller lettering, to give it an extra dimension.

    I was thinking of a stud installation, directly in the drywall. I read the brief installation instructions in the Gemini Book, but I wanted to know if you guys, the top notch of installation, had tips and tricks, that I may learn on here, instead than learning it the hard way? I'd be ordering a pattern with the stud locations, to ease the task...but is there anything else I should know? What tends to go wrong (or at least, when you began) with this type of installation?

    Thanks a whole lot guys, as always, we extremely appreciate the help and dedication this community has!
     
    Tags:
  2. Billct2

    Billct2 Major Contributor

    7,484
    650
    113
    Mar 12, 2005
    New England
    Stud mount is fine with letters tant size. Not many issues that aren't covered in Gemini's videos. I don't always like there patterns spacing, especially on smaller critical jobs. I'd use flat acrylic letters for the smaller copy, will look a lot better than vinyl. Those can be installed with mounting tape or dual lock.
     
  3. AylmerSigns

    AylmerSigns Member

    33
    0
    0
    Mar 18, 2008
    Thanks for the input. Would you order a mounting pattern for smaller fonts, or how would you go about to align them, if there was quite a few letters?

    Also, I've ordered some "disk" installation letters in the past, But wasn't exactly sure how to properly align these, since the patterns they provide are a full pattern? Any tips on this type of installation (Which applies to flat two-way tape lettering also).
     
  4. Drip Dry

    Drip Dry Very Active Member

    1,122
    1
    38
    Aug 11, 2004
    Long island NY
    Studs are the only way. Double sided tape will eventually fall off.

    I always print a line drawing on paper before I order the letters.
    It's usually a larger job, so it pays to bring the paper printout to the customer.
    You get, as well as the customer, to see what it may look like. This is your chance to
    make sure of size and that it fits in the intended space correctly. Also, this is the best way to
    check for kerning, instead on the computer screen.

    Once you get the letters from Gemini, check the pattern. They are almost always correct, but you
    don't want to be drilling holes and find out the kerning is wrong.

    Put the pattern up straight, and make sure it is laying flat on the wall. Use a lot of tape to keep it from moving while your drilling. It may be a freshly painted wall. Check the tape to make sure it doesn't pull paint when you remove it. You can use painters tape if you have a problem.
    Drill the holes with a bit size as small as possible. I try to make it so that I have to almost force the studs into the holes. This way you don't need to use glue. If you end up with a couple of loose letters, you can use glue on them.
    Use "Clear" Silicone. I use it from a little squeeze tube. It's just overkill from a caulking gun. ( and messy)

    If you find a letter is not straight, you can open up one or 2 of the holes in order to straighten it out. You need glue on these.
    Sometimes when your drilling, you'll hit a stud. Instead of trying to drill into it and causing the stud to go crooked, I either cut the stud shorter, or remove it entirely

    Bring a little dust brush. After you remove the paper pattern, you can brush the dust off the wall. You also should bring a little hand held vacuum to clean up the carpet under the letters.

    Some thoughts about Gemini letters.

    Their letters have a glossy finish on them. They almost look like plastic. I only use them outside up on the building. When I do it inside, I use a letter that is painted a matte finish. I think it looks nicer. However, I have used Gemini indoors and it looks
    fine.
     
  5. AylmerSigns

    AylmerSigns Member

    33
    0
    0
    Mar 18, 2008
    Awesome!

    All this is exactly what I was hoping for as an answer. Thank you so much, you just took off a few pounds of stress off my shoulders.

    Won't having too much of a small hole cause the drywall to crack or "bump" up?

    As for the clear silicon, I guess I can dip the stud in, when needed? Thank's for the tip of cutting or bypassing the stud that would end up in a stud. Never thought about that happening. How easily are the studs cut? Should I bring a smaller grinders, or plyers should do?

    Thanks again, you can't imagine how helpful this is to us.
     
  6. Billct2

    Billct2 Major Contributor

    7,484
    650
    113
    Mar 12, 2005
    New England
    Specify aluinum studs you can cut with a little bolt cutter. We'll often stick the stud in the tip of the silicone tube i
    ntead of squirting it into the hole.
     
  7. visual800

    visual800 Very Active Member

    3,931
    268
    83
    Aug 4, 2010
    montgomery, alabama
    Do not waste time with studs on sheetrock, its just senseless. We use 3m double sided back tape for all tape installs.this is the same tape most ADA signs come with. This stuff will tear studs out of the wall before it comes looks.

    Do not use that cheapa$$ white foam tape you see everywhere its a 50/50 chance it holds.
     
  8. Drip Dry

    Drip Dry Very Active Member

    1,122
    1
    38
    Aug 11, 2004
    Long island NY
    If you choose to use double sided tape as Visual suggest, then consider how your going to mount them, You can't use a standard Gemini pattern because once the standard pattern is on the wall (all paper) how will you attach the letter to wall?

    You need a spacing or tic pattern. This is a pattern that shows just the bottom of each letter. You line up each letter with the spacing letter and it's up to you to make sure the letter is straight. If you put the letter up crooked, you need to peal it off and straighten it out. When you peal it off, you lose holding strength.

    A better way is to make a stencil. Cut the pattern on the plotter out of removable vinyl. Remove the letters from the pattern. Put that up on the wall. Now insert each letter. Once all the letters are up, remove the stencil.

    I still prefer studs, but the stencil way will save some money on the way overpriced pattern from Gemini
     
  9. Pat Whatley

    Pat Whatley Major Contributor

    8,593
    86
    48
    Sep 29, 2003
    Wetumpka, AL
    Make or order your pattern. Cut the pattern so you one have a 1" strip of the bottom of the letters left, that's all you need to line your letters up. Tape it on the wall, add little strips of VHB tape to your lettering (6" letters won't take much at all), stick it on the wall, slip your pattern out, take the check to the bank.

    Silicone is a mess, studs are overkill, VHB is simple and will last.
     
  10. Moze

    Moze Precision Sign Services

    2,033
    156
    63
    Feb 27, 2012
    Dallas, TX
    Don't drill an undersized hole. Drill the proper size hole. Sizes are noted above.


    This.

    I use these.


    Again, I'm not being argumentative, but I think some of your advice is a little off base.
     
  11. Biker Scout

    Biker Scout Very Active Member

    1,505
    4
    38
    Jan 24, 2008
    Las Vegas
    There are tapes out there that will pull the drywall off if you try to remove them. BronTapes.com makes a product called Killer Red. Look into it. It's used everywhere.

    But as for the stencil thing.... I aways make my own out of cheap removable vinyl. I make it off the actual file I used to show the client the proof. So I know it's exactly right and how the customer saw it. Plus that's pretty easy to get up straight, stand back and take an over all look right before the letters actually go on.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. visual800

    visual800 Very Active Member

    3,931
    268
    83
    Aug 4, 2010
    montgomery, alabama
    We only use gemini templates for exterior stud installs, but on a job like the OP is talking about we make our own as Pat mentioned. We usually make paper pattern and hit the bottom of the letters about 1/4" up and thats our guide. Dont have to pay the Gemini upcharge for a pattern

    We had a large install for a university using 1/2" flat cut letters approx 4" tall, about 20 sets of them. The architect called for stud mount on sheetrock, we did them all in 3M tape in record time. First off stud mount was uncalled for on this application, it would have been messy and time consuming. Putting tape of the backs got us in and out in record time on this job. it was subbed out to us and they allowed so many hours for install and we did it in half the time.

    Common sense and know how will get you thru the day not instructions from higher ups that have not a clue
     
Loading...
Similar Threads - Gemini (Acrylic letters)
  1. netsol
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    272
  2. Sign Works
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    642
  3. Jo Hill
    Replies:
    18
    Views:
    1,993

Share This Page

 


Loading...