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Gemini Letters on Steel Siding

Discussion in 'General Signmaking Topics' started by TheSnowman, Jul 13, 2010.

  1. TheSnowman

    TheSnowman Major Contributor

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    Do I need to have wood or something to mount these to installed behind the siding. I don't get into these too much, I normally just order them, and the customer puts them up, but I had a fire dept. come in, and they want me to quote installing them on their new building.

    I like the process where you drill the holes, put silicone on the studs, and just stick it in there, but I am wondering how that works when all you have is a single strength sheet of steel pole barn siding on the side. Anyone delt with this?
     
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  2. J Hill Designs

    J Hill Designs Major Contributor

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    can you get to the inside of the siding? If so, I would use wing nuts on inside...if not, how for do you drill through the siding until you hit "something else"
     
  3. signmeup

    signmeup Major Contributor

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  4. J Hill Designs

    J Hill Designs Major Contributor

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    Well I was talking more "what the siding is attached to" than any obstructions...like say you may just need 6" studs to go throught the siding and into the wall behind it...
     
  5. TheSnowman

    TheSnowman Major Contributor

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    That's what the construction company is asking me. If they need to put something in there, they will, but they don't know where. It will be insulated, so I'm not sure how thick of a wall it will be. On a pole barn, I'd say there will be at LEAST 6" - 8" behind it. It will have perlins behind it that they attach the siding to, but that's it, unless I tell them something else.

    I was mainly wondering if there was a good way to do it just on the siding. I could do pad mount, but those are horrible on the ribs. If I drill, it wouldn't be such a huge problem in comparison.
     
  6. signage

    signage Major Contributor

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    Kraig you are leaving out a lot of info!

    What gage steel siding?

    Do you have access to the back side?

    What size letters and what are they made out of?
     
  7. Mosh

    Mosh Major Contributor

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    If they are the Gemini plastic letters use a pad and stud combo. Studs will line everything up and silicone on the pads will hold them in place. Also glue your pattern to a peice of cardboard so it can span over the ribs and not disort.
     
  8. iSign

    iSign Major Contributor

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    that's for sure... first, I thought "sheet steel" sounds like a flat sheet, & although I've never seen siding like that, I figured I've never seen a pole barn either, but now you say "ribs" and it seems like it could be that serious corrugated stuff with a 1-1'2" wide corrugation every 12"..

    and Gemini make letters ranging from FCO 1/4" acrylic, to 1/2" solid brass... silicone might hold one, but not the other...

    and as Brian said, how tall of letters? Corrugation will be less of an issue for 18" then 6" letters...
     
  9. TheSnowman

    TheSnowman Major Contributor

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    I don't know any of that...that's what's making me nuts...plus the guy said he needs the quote by tomorrow, so I can't even research it. I may pass on the job, but I like Mosh's idea of the combo...that may do the trick. I know silicone will hold it on, but I wasn't sure how to do it on the corrugated steel.

    It is the 1 1/2" rib every 12" from what I can tell. The letters are 12" or 18" formed plastic. They just said they were formed plastic Arial Bold. They wouldn't let me see the other quote even w/o the price on it, so that I could compare apples to apples.
     
  10. Mainframe

    Mainframe Very Active Member

    If the letters are plastic, order them with combination all (pads & studs), tape the pattern to cardboard like Mosh said & tape a socket to your drill bit to keep it from going too deep, if you can id the location during construction make sure nothing is back there to for the drill to hurt, now use 100% clear silicone with the pads & studs & you will be golden.
     
  11. TheSnowman

    TheSnowman Major Contributor

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    My only concern I guess is having to drill right on the edge of a rib for some reason. I'm sure I will come across that. I am a perfectionist, and I don't want a single letter to be even a little crooked. I am going to have them put some OSB behind it if I can talk them into it, so then I at least have something slightly solid to push against while drilling...or even just an extra perlin in there.

    Thanks for the tips...I think I'll take a stab at it, and see how it goes. We already have a scissors lift, so why not.
     
  12. Marlene

    Marlene Major Contributor

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    you can mount them to rails just have Gemini do the studs set up for that and then all you have to worry about is mounting the rail to the building
     
  13. dwt

    dwt Member

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    That's what I was thinking as well. Should make the install much easier.
     
  14. skyhigh

    skyhigh Major Contributor

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    you don't need the osb (but if it makes you feel better). As for drilling on the side of a rib, all you need to do is.... start the bit at a right angle into the side of the rib, then stand the drill up when you start thru the siding (does that make sense?).
     
  15. Just Another Sign Guy

    Just Another Sign Guy Very Active Member

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    there are So many different ways i have done projects like this depending on the situation, customer demands/worries, etc.

    but if the letters are going to be mounted at a height that it won't make a difference mount these bad boys on rails and be done with it...quick and easy.
     
  16. skyhigh

    skyhigh Major Contributor

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    I see we have a few that say rails, but.....
    Rails look tacky, and there is no need.
     
  17. G-Artist

    G-Artist Active Member

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    My first-ever Gemini install was using rails and it was pleasing in apperance. I am a bit persnickety and I was satisfied and my client loved it. It had to be perfect and esthetically pleasing because the sign was for my union local building and it reflects our craft. I made my own rails.

    Placing anything on a metal corrugated building is a pain in the ***.

    Our second install on that type of building I eschewed rails and just fabricated a backer board and applied the letters to it. So technically it was a dimensional sign and it looked awesome (20 years ago).

    Doing that same sign today I think I would incorporate LED lighting to give it a bit of a halo effect as a value-added item.
     
  18. Doyle

    Doyle Very Active Member

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    Quote the job, you will be fine. Take some of these suggestions and see what is going to work best for you and the customer to get the best looking final product, don't worry about it too much. You will find a system that works and you will know exactly what to do next time this situation arises.

    If it were my job, I would do just as suggested above with the combination ALL mounting hardware and silicone. Drilling on the edge of one of those ribs won't be a big deal, just might have to pay more attention to those holes to make sure the stud fits in just right. Also, most letters have 3-4 studs in them, and if I hit a rough spot, sometimes I will remove a stud completely (even only 3 studs is more than enough support for a letter that only weighs a couple of ounces. Just make sure you plan ahead and give your pads enough of a standoff to compensate for the ribs.

    Good luck!
     
  19. TheSnowman

    TheSnowman Major Contributor

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    I had never thought about using a track. That would be really quick and easy, but in this case, I have to bid "apples to apples" so I'm just going to drill. I have delt with way worse, and I'd love to get into doing more of these, I just haven't ever had time or the experience to do them. Done a couple in the past that were fine, I just hate ribbed steel!
     
  20. daveb

    daveb General Know-it-all

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    I agree with Sky High, a formed individual letter is supposed to look like it's sitting on the wall with no visible means of support, a rail just defeats that purpose, plus in a year or two when dirt and road grime starts to collect behind the plastic against the wall... yuck. If's it's a 1'' rib just use pvc spacers and plenty of silicone, in the spacer and through the wall. It'll last for years and none of that dirty rail in 5 years making you regret using it.:rolleyes: Nuff said.
     
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