Welcome To Signs101.com: Largest Forum for Signmaking Professionals

Signs101.com: Largest Forum for Signmaking Professionals is the LARGEST online community & discussion forum for professional sign-makers and graphic designers.

 


  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Gemini Pronto Track on a 4' X 8'

Discussion in 'General Signmaking Topics' started by TheSnowman, Dec 23, 2009.

  1. TheSnowman

    TheSnowman Major Contributor

    6,919
    41
    48
    Aug 28, 2007
    Indiana
    I have a customer that just wants a 4' X 8' sheet of something that they can print on their printer, laminate, and insert their own items and prices into changeable copy tracks. They want them spaced so that they can do 2" letters.

    I called my local supplier to see if they could install the track, and then send me the 4' X 8' but they said I should get a local sign company to do it...I then informed them that I was that company. Then, I called Gemini, and the lady said that at this time, they don't offer assembly, just the parts.

    I'm not opposed to doing the work myself, I've done it before, but it just took forever, and was very tedious work to make sure everything was straight, drilled out to the right size, and set correctly. I am just blown away that there isn't something like this out there already assembled, that I could just order from a supplier. It's indoor, they want spaced for either 2" or 3" letters, on a 4' X 8' sheet.

    Anyone seen someone that offers something like this? Just trying to see if I can save a ton of time and still make the same money on the job.
     
    Tags:
  2. Just Another Sign Guy

    Just Another Sign Guy Very Active Member

    3,057
    0
    0
    Jun 19, 2004
    not sure about the tedious work part as it has always gone pretty quick and smooth for this kid.

    what i do is layout where i want the track by making a few strategically placed lines with a stabillo on the substrate then i lay the track in place and utilize the letters as spacers to ensure that the track is spaced correctly and put a few pieces of masking tape to hold the track on my stategically placed stabillo marks.

    then i drill my holes, remove track and remove the debris from drilling...then i place a bead of whatever adhesive i am using on the track and line up the holes and insert whatever hardware i am using...and then i place a strip of vinyl over the track that is the same color as the substrate (just a personal preference of mine).

    literally i have placed an 8' foot section in less than 5 minutes...if you do not use spacers (i usually use the letters but you can cut sections of something else) it speeds up the process substantially.

    additionally i feel there is great time saved by laying out where the track is going and placing stabillo marks (or stips of masking tape) check your layout and then trust your layout and knock it out.

    i have seen ppl place one piece of track and then rework their layout for each piece of track (measuring, marking, figuring distance, etc) and it takes them forever and a day...
     
  3. TheSnowman

    TheSnowman Major Contributor

    6,919
    41
    48
    Aug 28, 2007
    Indiana
    I would be that 2nd guy.

    Your method seems to make more sense. I'm reading in the Gemini book, and they say I can use Weld-On too. Since this is indoor, that would make it easy.

    What would you recommend using for a substrate. I suppose I could just use alumalite, but I want something that's got a nice finished edge on it if I can get it. I guess I'm not sure what all Weld-On works well on. PVC would finish off nicest probably.
     
  4. Just Another Sign Guy

    Just Another Sign Guy Very Active Member

    3,057
    0
    0
    Jun 19, 2004
    i sleep much better at night using both mechanical and chemical fasteners.

    since it is indoors you really are not limited by substrate. depending on the design i might even use a nice sheet of plywood framed with crown...if you dont want to get that carried away and knowing nothing of the business that it is going in or the design maybe just a sheet of dibond/nupoly.

    if i was going to use dibond or a similar material i would use sylicone and mechanical fasteners.
     
  5. Mosh

    Mosh Major Contributor

    5,809
    41
    48
    Oct 19, 2009
    Nerbaska
    For spacing we cut plywood strips the space needed betwwen the strips. All you have to do it put the top one on straight (using a peice of plywood clamped to the substraight for a straight edge) then put you plywood spacer down and lay the next tact. Repeat as needed. A 4x8 using 6" letteres takes one of my guys 30 minutes or so. All the spacing measurments are in the Gemini catalog. We use weld-on and sometimes rivets with an air rivert gun.

    Not rocket science.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2009
  6. J Hill Designs

    J Hill Designs Major Contributor

    15,549
    18
    0
    Sep 24, 2004
    gemini says weld-on if the substrates are the same (acrylic backer with acrylic tracks, or lexan backer/polycarb tracks...otherwise it needs slots or oversized holes to alleviate expansion/contraction of the two differing substrates - I would think polymetal 2 acrylic would probably be the worst combo in this sense, although not so much indoors...my 2¢

    oh and +2 use spacers to install - gemini book shows spacer size needed for letter height used
     
  7. TheSnowman

    TheSnowman Major Contributor

    6,919
    41
    48
    Aug 28, 2007
    Indiana
    I can see how not using screws only would help speed up the process. I got the order together now, if they bite...I'll try the new ways. I'm thinking I'm going to use Omega Board so that it has some decent rigidity behind it, and doesn't show the corrugations like alumalite would. I'm worried about hauling it and some of those tracks letting loose.
     
  8. Jillbeans

    Jillbeans Major Contributor

    14,457
    19
    38
    Dec 24, 2003
    Butler, PA
    I do not think WeldOn will work on something that was already printed and laminated, wouldn't that be setting yourself up for failure?
    Dan's method sounds the best.
    I used WeldOn on big-a$$ acrylic panels using letters as spacers and the damn things dried too tight and I was totally screwed. Always allow a little bit of sliding room.
    The last one I did, and I do try to avoid thses things, my olde son helped. We used a drill and plastic rivets. And VHB tape to hold it all steady.
    Love....Jill
    PS WeldOn does NOT work on Alumalite . Believe me, I've tried it. Probably not OmegaBond either.
     
  9. Mosh

    Mosh Major Contributor

    5,809
    41
    48
    Oct 19, 2009
    Nerbaska
    Be sure if you are not mounting this to plastic 1) oversize the holes in the track and 2) do not over tighten the screws. Otherwise this summer when it gets hot they will expand and you'll have a mess/

    ARE YOU SERIOUS? Aluminum is not plastic afterall. OMG
     
  10. wes70

    wes70 Very Active Member

    1,663
    8
    38
    Oct 31, 2005
    Canada
    I use the same technique as Dan. Where this is intended for inside, I would use atleast 6mil pvc substrate.The added thickness will give you some depth for mechanical fastners. Also, I have used aluminum composite substrates in the past, but I find that the painted finishes get scratched over time from the letters being slid in the tracks over and over again, where as, the pvc won't show the scrapes as much.
     
  11. TheSnowman

    TheSnowman Major Contributor

    6,919
    41
    48
    Aug 28, 2007
    Indiana
    It's indoor, in the air, in the heat...probably won't fluctuate more than 10 degrees in it's life. I'm not planning on using screws since these aren't getting gemini letters put in them. They are printing their own papers, and will just slide them in, so shouldn't be any resistance. I would like to just use an adhesive and be done w/ it.
     
  12. Jillbeans

    Jillbeans Major Contributor

    14,457
    19
    38
    Dec 24, 2003
    Butler, PA
    He's the one who was going to use it on OmegaBond.
    I just wanted to warn him.
    And yes I did try it once on Alumalite.
     
  13. TheSnowman

    TheSnowman Major Contributor

    6,919
    41
    48
    Aug 28, 2007
    Indiana
    My supplier told me that OmegaBoard had a vinyl face on it. Is that not right? I've never bought the stuff before.
     
  14. Mosh

    Mosh Major Contributor

    5,809
    41
    48
    Oct 19, 2009
    Nerbaska
    OmegaBoard does have a vinyl face. I am not sure weld on works with it. VHB if it is an indoor app and only holding paper.
    Jillbeans, wasn't trying to dog on you but Weld 3 melds two plastics together to form the bond, so no way alumalite would ever work.
    Not sure on omega, I doubt it though. Gemini track works best on arcylic or polycarb, can't see a reason to use it on something else, IMO.
     
  15. Just Another Sign Guy

    Just Another Sign Guy Very Active Member

    3,057
    0
    0
    Jun 19, 2004
    there are some other options that may actually work better for you since the client is not going to be using a letter/number set.

    you may just want to get some extrusion or fashion something yourself such as a strip of aluminum cut to say 5/8" and cover half of the backside of that with vhb and mount it to your substrate top and bottom..since all that will be held in place is a sheet of paper...the acrylic track may actually leave more space between the track and the substrate than you want unless the client is using polycote for their paper or some other paper with some serious integrity.

    i have also seen a piano hinge that is similar to a hair berret with a spring that was available in 8' lengths that you cut to size this would be a good option for regular paper as it would cinch it tight between the hinge and the substrate if they were planning on utilizing regular sheet paper for this sign.
     
  16. Mosh

    Mosh Major Contributor

    5,809
    41
    48
    Oct 19, 2009
    Nerbaska
  17. Circleville Signs

    Circleville Signs Very Active Member

    2,140
    11
    38
    Sep 30, 2009
    Circleville, OH
    Or, my old favorite for the customer created content signs.....

    Spring loaded clothespin and super glue!!

    (J/K)


    Gary
     
  18. Magnetletters

    Magnetletters New Member

    6
    0
    0
    Dec 25, 2009
    Why not try some of our products. Actually our business was started because of the problem or policy of Gemini. We got a call one day from a customer (she was an older lady and not capable of performing the work,) just plain mad with her channel Gemini. At the time we didn't do signs but we do offer magnets for signs. The lady had a whiteboard and whalla, problem fixed. I will say this, after she bought, we did work on her track sign out of kindness but mounted the tracks on steel backing with liquid nail. Works great.
     
  19. TheSnowman

    TheSnowman Major Contributor

    6,919
    41
    48
    Aug 28, 2007
    Indiana
    I'm not opposed to anyone's products, but you aren't a merchant member here, so I have no idea who you are.
     
  20. signage

    signage Major Contributor

    10,603
    268
    83
    Oct 5, 2005
    Penn
    Magnetletters if you want to sell or offer your products you need to be a merchant mamber!
     
Loading...

Share This Page

 


Loading...