Gerber Sabre 408 Spoil Board/Sacrificial Table

[JJM7288]

We purchased a new AXYZ Pacer 4010 last month for many reasons, the least of which is the spoil board/vacuum setup.
I'm curious if any Sabre users have adapted MDO/MDF spoil board to their vacuum table. Cutting to mask as we've done creates secondary deburring operations. Although we automated cleanup process, upgrading to the AXYZ machine with the ability to process finished parts creates a very short ROI.

I'm trying to decide if I want to keep the Sabre, but only if we can upgrade from the taped down PVC to MDO/MDF.

So, has anyone done this?

Thank you, and happy 2015!

Jim Mulligan

 

[Typestries]

You know, all that handwork stinks, I'll take that worthless sabre off of your hands...........

In all seriousness, we buy ultralite MDF, some places call it LDF. Works like a charm. One can cut right to it, or just a tad deeper, no clean up on parts at all. Our 10 hp vac works just fine sucking right through it. Once its beat up, we just surface it with an 1.25" table surface bit.

We have found that taking the factory faces off with the table surface bit helps a ton. If you have a smaller vac, seal the edge with paint, that will help too. But with the 10 hp even the smallest parts stay down.

 

[JJM7288]

Thank you, Rick. The old Sabre is a fine machine, it has served us quite well. I think we'll hold onto it.

 

[Typestries]

I forgot to mention, just set that sheet right onto the PVC. Don't even bother messing with tearing off your old PVC. It sucks.

And the machine will literally suck the MDF to the OEM PVC, then the part to the MDF. You could go crazy and stick a small tab of d/f tape in two corners to prevent sliding when you load sheets. We've never once changed the OEM PVC - in 17 years- after I helped a friend with his saber getting all of that glue off of the aluminum, I vowed to find a better way and this is it. Machine holes and pockets- totally unnecessary with this method. huge time saver and quality increaser.

 

[johnnysigns]

I'm using MDF on our Sabre. I had to remove the OEM pvc stuff because it had lifted in many spots spoiling the vacuum. Been 100% happy to make the move although we run an unconventional setup so we can cut tiny parts. It's served us well. We run 12hr shifts on this nearly 6 days a week and it's been milled from over an inch to nearly a quarter of an inch in the 2yrs this has lasted. Again we cut a lot of unconventional parts at our place so we need to keep the milling in tip top shape for our purposes. I'm getting low enough where I'll likely glue a new board over the old stuff after a fresh mill to bring it back up.

 

[JJM7288]

Thanks! We are reinstalling the Sabre next week with MDF.

 

[mitch2374]

mdf on top of pvc

I have just resurfaced our sabre 408 with pvc but I'd like to preserve it cuz its only less than a 1/4 inch thick and its attached with lords adhesive. I had to mill off the last surface (which) was on for 5 years) I purchased 3/4 inch medex and surfaced both sides and painted the edges put it on the table but the suction is terrible. Is it too thick? Should I mill it down thinner? Thoughts?

 

[johnnysigns]

It's not too thick, I believe the medex is one of the denser MDF varieties so you're not getting the vacuum pull straight through the sheet like you'd normally get with a conventional lower density spoil board. I run medex with the holes drilled into the extruded aluminum vacuum bays in the table similar to how Gerber sets up the PVC table for our primary vacuum. I either cut direct to that or throw an LDF spoil board on top for my cutting similar to what Typestries recommended earlier.

 

[johnnysigns]

Also to note the major drawback to moving from PVC to the Medex table bed is sensitivity to humidity and to make sure your air source for clean up and dusting is dry air. Wet air will swell the MDF quite quickly and require pretty regular milling. Just keep that in mind. For really tight depth control we generally run an initial mill each AM to keep everything in order.

 

[Skelacorp]

I'm using MDF on our Sabre. I had to remove the OEM pvc stuff because it had lifted in many spots spoiling the vacuum. Been 100% happy to make the move although we run an unconventional setup so we can cut tiny parts. It's served us well. We run 12hr shifts on this nearly 6 days a week and it's been milled from over an inch to nearly a quarter of an inch in the 2yrs this has lasted. Again we cut a lot of unconventional parts at our place so we need to keep the milling in tip top shape for our purposes. I'm getting low enough where I'll likely glue a new board over the old stuff after a fresh mill to bring it back up.

Hopefully you are still checking this forum. We are about to remove the OEM PVC because just like yours it has lifted in many spots. We got a 3/4 sheet of MDF and will mill each side 0.06 before the first job. But, did you make any air channels on the back side for better vacuum or just laid it down and started to work? I have seen some units using a double spoil board where the bottom section of MDF has a X pattern to distribute the suction evenly and a second MDF sheet it laid on top of that with no channel at all. With the 408 Sabre model you always get better suction at the valve end, so I was thinking to cut a channel lengthwise to even this out. Any thoughts?

 

[johnnysigns]

Hopefully you are still checking this forum. We are about to remove the OEM PVC because just like yours it has lifted in many spots. We got a 3/4 sheet of MDF and will mill each side 0.06 before the first job. But, did you make any air channels on the back side for better vacuum or just laid it down and started to work? I have seen some units using a double spoil board where the bottom section of MDF has a X pattern to distribute the suction evenly and a second MDF sheet it laid on top of that with no channel at all. With the 408 Sabre model you always get better suction at the valve end, so I was thinking to cut a channel lengthwise to even this out. Any thoughts?

Skela, we ran the drill program to drill holes straight through the MDF into the aluminum vacuum plenum. We didn't run any pockets though. I mainly drilled new holes in the MDF because we used a really dense sheet of MDF for the spoilboard. I was worried it wouldn't draw vacuum through very well or overwork the pump if we didn't. When we ran that MDF low we just glued new sheets on top and redrilled to the Vac plenums. We built a template out of the drill locations in Illustrator and used that to drop smaller parts over the drill holes. Sometimes we actually laid stuff out to miss the holes too when we nested to cut down on vac leakage too.

If you're using standard MDF or lightweight MDF you can always decide after you've mounted the new spoilboard if it warrants the addition of drill holes. You should be able to tell pretty quickly if you throw some scrap on the bed with the vac on if it'll hold or not.

I have a bunch of collets and collet nuts for the Perske spindle if you'd want them. If you wanted to cover shipping or email me a waybill I could wrap them up. Looks like I've got collets for: 1/8, (2) 1/4's, 10mm for drill bits & a 1/2 collet + 4 collet nuts.

 

[J. Bryan Quebodeaux]

Remember on the 408.....any exposed and unsealed MDF, suction will still be present. Even between the aluminum slats on the underside of the MDF, if not sealed suction will occur in those areas reducing the vacuum efficiency.

 

[Skelacorp]

Hello guys. Another Christmas break and we are still trying to improve the suction on our spoil board to be able to hold down smaller parts better. For substrates thicker than 1/4" the suction is adequate but not great. With 1/8 and 3/16 thick substrates small parts move around and we have trouble cutting them. We have sealed the bottom side of the MDF spoil board and the sides with flexseal spray paint and with too many layers to count so no leaks there. wondering if anyone has drilled the aluminum plenum holes to a larger diameter? we are thinking to try 3/16 or 1/4" diameter versus the original 1/8. What do you guys think? OR possibly stick with the 1/8 diameter but twice the number of holes? any HVAC engineers on this forum?

We are still using the original vacuum table 10hp pump with a 4" diameter main ipex line that splits into the 7 aluminum plenums.
Has anyone tried running a 6" ipex main runner instead? if so, did it help with suction on small parts?

 

[johnnysigns]

When you say you sealed the bottom of the MDF I'm hoping you didn't seal the whole back of the sheet and install down on the bed? Guessing someone went under the machine and sprayed between vac plenums?

This was our last hole drill orientation. The purple plenum locations maybe off, but this was the hole array we used with a dense MDF (Medex) for hold down. There's other solutions like Allstar CNC's tile gasket which has been a game changer on our AXYZ.

 

[Skelacorp]

When you say you sealed the bottom of the MDF I'm hoping you didn't seal the whole back of the sheet and install down on the bed? Guessing someone went under the machine and sprayed between vac plenums?

This was our last hole drill orientation. The purple plenum locations maybe off, but this was the hole array we used with a dense MDF (Medex) for hold down. There's other solutions like Allstar CNC's tile gasket which has been a game changer on our AXYZ.

Yes sir. We got "down under" and sprayed it between the plenums. Also got a lot of feed back to switch to a LDF or UDF board instead of MDF. Seriously considering this option and also the 6" IPEX diameter main line upgrade/change. Take a look here for a test done by other

what do you think?

 

[johnnysigns]

I think it's fairly cheap investment that could greatly increase your hold down capacity. We run an AXYZ now and their vac setup is similar to gerbers using vacuum plenums. We have had amazing success covering our spoilboard with the tile gasket for smaller part hold down. We ran 515 credit card sized polycarbonate parts per 48x96 sheet for a job we produced and lost 3-5 parts per full bed of cutting. Initially we'd mask areas that were cut as the machine moved through the cycle, but in the end it wasn't even necessary. I think with the density change in spoil board you're talking about and the larger diameter feed pipe underneath, the tile gasket could be a welcome addition to add even more hold down capacity. For a 5x10 bed we were in the neighborhood of $220 for a full set of tile gaskets.

 

[ikarasu]

How often do you cut small parts?

I saw a video on this and bought it... And we can cut 3" x 3" Aluminum on our multicam and it wont move. I was shocked as I thought it was an "As seen on TV" fake type product... but even without cutting, we put a small sign on it, and on the MDF without it...and it was a good 4-5X stronger at hold down.

https://blackboxvac.com/product/black-box-grip-lock-mat/ It's Expensive.... But it lasts a long time if you have your max depth dialed in. We only use it when we're cutting parts under 6"... So it lasts us a long time. I was told it'll last half as long as a MDF Sheet is ecpected to, if using full time.

Might be worth getting if it's not something you do every single day