Gilding: NEWBIE

[Stanton]

Ya know what.... to use your phrasing, I'll be the first to call BullScat on your lame theory. Wherein it does work to an extent, it is not at all recommended by anyone who gilds for a living. I presume you just heard your theory through the grapevine of a buncha hacks.

Tell me how, when and where you would use your drops of paint [what kinda pint we talkin' here ??] to your size. The thread is all about gilding and gold leaf, so I'm not stepping on anyone's toes asking you, point blank, what you're talkin' about.

Hey Gyno, PLEASE leave me alone.

STOP sending me PM's
Seriously, enough.

I get it... you are full of yourself.

Calling me Stannie in your PM's, after I corrected you... my name is Glenn Stanton.

You are a total douche.


LEAVE MY THE **** ALONE !!!

That is not a question...

 

[Gino]

Hey Gyno, PLEASE leave me alone.

STOP sending me PM's
Seriously, enough.

I get it... you are full of yourself.

Calling me Stannie in your PM's, after I corrected you... my name is Glenn Stanton.

You are a total douche.


LEAVE MY THE **** ALONE !!!

That is not a question...

That PM'ing you're talking about was not my doing as you recall. Now, just answer my question about your golden gilding technique.

 

[letterman7]

Gotta love the love here. I'll mix in a little One-Shot or Chromatic Yellow if I'm working a darker color surface and either black or blue for a lighter surface if I need to. And where did I get that info? Well, from the 'Gold Leaf Techniques' by Raymond LeBlanc who states, on page 89, that it is 'necessary to mix in enough color with them (sizes) so that the work will show up against the background. The less color used, the better the gilding characteristics will be, which is why the sizes are produced as clears'.

No, I'm not a master gilder, but have success with this method when needed.

Seems to me that LeBlanc was one of the leaders back in the day for gilding, wouldn't you say Gino?

 

[HDvinyl]

Hey Gyno, PLEASE leave me alone.

STOP sending me PM's
Seriously, enough.

I get it... you are full of yourself.

Calling me Stannie in your PM's, after I corrected you... my name is Glenn Stanton.

You are a total douche.


LEAVE MY THE **** ALONE !!!

That is not a question...

Rough day fishing?

 

[Stanton]

Rough day fishing?

Caught a little one. Let her go.

All about toes in the sand and warm sunshine.


The water was sooooo lukewarm.

Some clouds.

 

[Salmoneye]

My neighbor is a retired gilder/signwriter in his late 80's. He told me about adding a drop of yellow so that you could see where your size was. I always assumed it was for glass work but I don't remember. Every time I ask him about a product like size he always starts giving me a recipe instead of a brand to buy. Old school.

 

[Stanton]

... He told me about adding a drop of yellow so that you could see where your size was. I always assumed it was for glass work

To guild on glass you use 'water size'. Gelatin dissolved in water.
Use a quill dedicated to the task. The quill must never touch paint, ever.
The smell of oil on the sable hair will cause fish eye in the size.
I am not exaggerating. Keep your gold tools separate from the rest of your kit.

Two drops of dish soap in a quarter of a bean can of size will make it flow smooth and stick on glass.

'Paint' the copy / design in reverse on the second surface and lay up loose leaf gold while the size is still wet.

The gold will suck flat onto the water size. Pretty cool to see it happen.
Let it dry and then rub off the ancillary flakes with PURE COTTON cotton balls.
(Not Walmart polly blend. Synthetic cotton balls are like Brillo to gold)

Back it up with black One Shot.


Get paid and run away before the office staff starts picking at it with their fingernails.

 

[Gino]

Gotta love the love here. I'll mix in a little One-Shot or Chromatic Yellow if I'm working a darker color surface and either black or blue for a lighter surface if I need to. And where did I get that info? Well, from the 'Gold Leaf Techniques' by Raymond LeBlanc who states, on page 89, that it is 'necessary to mix in enough color with them (sizes) so that the work will show up against the background. The less color used, the better the gilding characteristics will be, which is why the sizes are produced as clears'.

No, I'm not a master gilder, but have success with this method when needed.

Seems to me that LeBlanc was one of the leaders back in the day for gilding, wouldn't you say Gino?

There's no place for 'Love' when some people gone fishin' just posts up silly nonsense copied and pasted from some article he/she just googled.

Anyway, I didn't say it didn't work, it's just not recommended by many professionals. There are better ways to do it.

When one is using 'Quick Size' you might consider doing it, because all quick size won't flow out and level on it's own, so you have to make sure all areas are covered evenly with no high spots. Using powder works far better, but in a pinch you can use the paint. The problem with the paint is.... the reducers, driers and retardants in them changes the window of application time. If you wanna really get technical, you can get tints from a regular paint store, which is compatible with all bases and have no oils in them to contaminate your size. Adding 1-Shot or other lettering paints is just frowned upon. I've also heard and read that warming up your size prior to filtering through a coffee filter will eliminate almost all contaminates.

When one uses 'Slo Size' it is self leveling and with any amount of familiarity of your trade, you can do it without the tricks.... or just use the powder.

Again, if you're doing a small project, maybe quick size is your ticket, but when doing large jobs or want that extra 'Umphf'..... ya wanna use slo size and do it right.

 

[round man]

never add "dish soap" to water size for glass gilding,...if the size fish eyes then the glass is not clean enough,..give it one more cleaning with cake bon ami,.....before the staff gets a chance to pick at the job one should add an additional coat of clear after backing up the gold with gold backing paint(sold specifically for that purpose) not one shot,...the clear is used to protect the work and should overlap the backing paint slightly,...

edited to add,...the traditional glass gilder doesn't use a quill for the water size that would be insane,..one uses a size brush,sold specifically for the task,....one will not have to "run" from a job done properly,...they can stand behind it with pride,....

 

[Salmoneye]

Excuse my ignorance. I thought that you could use oil size and water size on glass to get a matte or a gloss finish if you will? I don't do any leaf (yet)

 

[Gino]

Not being an expert on glass gilding, I believe the water based sizes will give you a brighter appearance and you should use patent leaf with it, while the oil size will give you a satiny or duller appearance which a lota people will do to give different appearances.... almost like making it 3D.

 

[mesheau]

Here is the only close up I could find of my gilding. I use Duna's Corafoam 15 pound HDU. I was using some other stuff but found it too coarse to get a good looking surface. These letters were hand carved so they were very smooth to start with. I sanded them lightly with 320 grit then primed them... 2 coats sanded in between with more 320. You don't want to make them too perfect or they won't look hand did and they won't sparkle. (your routed letters look like the bit was going too fast or was dull. I'm also a bit suspicious of your spindle bearings.)

The primer I use is Home Hardware 8010 latex. It's made for priming plastic siding and galvanized metal. It's only sold in Canada but you should be able to find something like it. It sands like automotive lacquer primer... that is to say very, very well. Once the primer is done I give the letters a coat of flat mustard coloured latex paint that has had most of the water evaporated away. It's like mud almost. Thick as cold-cream. I like the brush marks... you can tell a human did it. I give that a quick sand with 320 grit too. Now it's ready to gild.

I use Rolco size. I found it works better than One Shot. Better to work with and the final gild is far more durable. Anyway... one thick coat of size, but not so thick it puddles and wait an hour and a half or so. Test for tac. I do a test patch for this. If you drag a finger across it and it goes dull it's not ready. I don't bother with the whistle method. You can gild the Rolco quite early and still get good results. Just make sure that when it's lightly touched, the finger print goes completely away. If it does you are golden.

I also found "thicker" gold works better for me. I use "double thick 24K" from Wrights of Lymm in the UK. Use loose gold for lettering. Patent leaf is for out doors. It's a real pain to do letters with patent leaf.. it'll take you forever. Horrible stuff.

Adrian

Hey Adrian,

Thanks for the info, I'm located in NB so I will check the local HH. I do like your method and also with regards to the primer. I found the fresh start didn't build that well and thus created a pretty ****ty surface for the gold to stick too.

Cheers
g

 

[round man]

Excuse my ignorance. I thought that you could use oil size and water size on glass to get a matte or a gloss finish if you will? I don't do any leaf (yet)

Water size is used to get a brilliant mirror like finish for glass gold,....in order to attain what is termed a "matte gild" or "matte centers". One must first letter an outline and or shadow,then one must then letter the area to be gilded matte with CLEAR oil size and then once that is dry,water gild over the dry oil size,...often as not this is done by dusting the area to be lettered with kaolin prior to the oil size,to be able to see what is being lettered,....this results in a gild that is bright but does not reflect like a mirror to make your lettering more legible to viewers ,...gold often as not will reflect dark colors and not be all that visible without the matte centers

 

[mesheau]

Admin you can lock this whenever you want. I've received enough info.

Take it to PM guys.

/thread

 

[TammieH]

Same here, I like black undercoating or use a color similar to the background, ie. dark brown background, do an undercoat of dark brown similar to match


First sign company I worked at, back in 77-80, the owner would use straight 1-Shot Imitation Gold as a size...and before anyone asks. I don't know.

But he was sort of an alcoholic and listened to the John Birch Society on the radio, when I was young and impressionable.

 

[signmeup]

Hey Adrian,

Thanks for the info, I'm located in NB so I will check the local HH. I do like your method and also with regards to the primer. I found the fresh start didn't build that well and thus created a pretty ****ty surface for the gold to stick too.

Cheers
g

For sure get a can of 8010 at HH. You'll be very happy with it.

Adrian

 

[jen.reelez]

Using BM Fresh Start primer, BM Black Latex Exterior Paint, 1 Shot Imitation Metallic Gold, Rolco Quick Dry Size, and Giusto Manetti 24k Gold Leaf (Beating).

So I get the sizing down, let it tac up for about 2 hours, then take the forms of leaf and push them into the letters until evenly coated. Maybe my process is wrong?

The only thing I can think of is the HDU wasn't sanded enough. I got the size on really well with straight crisp lines, however because the surface was a bit rough I think it bled out around the edges.

Wow, this is the next think that I will try :Big Laugh

Thanks for sharing it here, want to see more of your work.

 

[signmeup]

Wow, this is the next think that I will try :Big Laugh

Thanks for sharing it here, want to see more of your work.

The next "think" you should try is being nice instead of being mean. The OP came here for help not semi-literate ridicule.

Adrian

 

[fresh]

No, no, no, no... If you add paint to the size, you are changing the chemistry of it, thus changing how it reacts. The ideal thing to use is Kaolin USP. Just dust it on, and vacuum the excess off. (This prevents the gold from sticking to what you don't want it to.) Then you apply the size, which appears as if you are painting gloss. Allow it to dry to the correct tack, then apply the gold leaf. This is what I learned from Francis at Signs of Gold, and I saw it in action.

Is Kaolin USP the same thing as Kaolin Clay ? If I search for Kaolin USP, i get much more expensive results. I'd like to try this technique for a large gold leaf sign we are working on. If not, do you know where I can order it from

 

[Kottwitz-Graphics]

Is Kaolin USP the same thing as Kaolin Clay ? If I search for Kaolin USP, i get much more expensive results. I'd like to try this technique for a large gold leaf sign we are working on. If not, do you know where I can order it from

Check out letterhead sign supply ( www.letterheadsignsupply.com and under the gold leaf secti....on look for shadow kaolin )...

I picked this up from Francis Lansetti's site www.signsofgold.com and i spoke with him at the atlantic city ussc show.