Glueing Dibond

[DizzyMarkus]

After cutting the vgroove in the backside of my Dibond and folded -- Is there a glue that you use to adhere it ? Do you make small 45's for the inside corners? -- thanks for any finishing ideas

Markus

 

[DizzyMarkus]

Maybe it was to simple of a question?> lol

Markus

 

[CanuckSigns]

I attempted it once, never did find a glue strong enough to hold the v-groove closed, we ended up making a frame and using PL-9000 construction adhesive to adhere the dibond to the frame.

However, You can weld the plastic together with a hot air welder, but I have no experience with this.

 

[CES020]

Call Chemical Concepts in PA. They have products that will do it. You might have to glue something to it, like a metal angle bracket to the inside, rather than just gluing it to itself, but I've seen aluminum joined to aluminum just like you're talking about, and it was one heck of a bond. Enough so that places like SignComp had demos of their extrusions glued together with it.

I don't know the product name, but I do know it was Chemical Concepts.

Tell them what you're trying to do and they'll have the right solution.

 

[nwsigns]

Best to use angle aluminum to hold it together - along with Lords 406-19 or similar epoxy, stuff will not fail if used properly.

 

[John L]

Yes epoxy. If you need it quick, check at a local autobody supply house for what you need. NWSigns is right, applied correctly to clean, scuffed aluminum (or other materials too) epoxy will hold a wonder. Here is epoxy used for an alum hand railing. http://www.wagnercompanies.com/site/Viewer.aspx?iid=11636&mname=Article&rpid=516

 

[J Hill Designs]

Best to use angle aluminum to hold it together - along with Lords 406-19 or similar epoxy, stuff will not fail if used properly.

this.

 

[skyhigh]

Agree on the epoxy (406-19).....but I have to wonder if we could offer better advice if we knew what exactly you were doing.

Maybe it was to simple of a question?> lol

Markus

First off, I personally (stress personally), would never bend dibond for a long term project. I'm racking my mind for any situation where bending dibond would be a preferred method. I'm coming up empty.

 

[J Hill Designs]

to create a pan.

heres a dibond fab manual

 

[skyhigh]

.............. ya don't say.

I know WHAT he's doing. I'm saying there may be (probably be) better materials and methods to accomplish the same finished product.

Best to use angle aluminum to hold it together - along with Lords 406-19 or similar epoxy

In every scenario I can think of, if your going to be using 406.19, along with aluminum angle to make your pan.....along with the additional labor of routing a "V" groove into dibond type product (inferior after all you're left with is a .020 skin of aluminum), why not just use an .063 aluminum to start?

Again, without additional info from Markus, I'm coming up blank.

 

[DizzyMarkus]

Sorry for being vague.
Yes I was going to experiment with making pans of different shapes and didnt believe the "bend" alone was strong enough to hold the shape. I would figure angle aluminum in the corners and wondered what type of glue would be used (or the process) for keeping it in place once bent. The weight difference for .063 would be a factor no? Not that the weight is a factor just a difference. Also maybe glueing a piece or shape over another say 3d type effect.

we ended up making a frame and using PL-9000 construction adhesive to adhere the dibond to the frame.

It would seem building a skeleton would be best per hanging and strength :0)


thank you all for your responses

Markus



PS: thank you jhilldesigns for the fab link

 

[FS-Keith]

Agree on the epoxy (406-19).....but I have to wonder if we could offer better advice if we knew what exactly you were doing.


First off, I personally (stress personally), would never bend dibond for a long term project. I'm racking my mind for any situation where bending dibond would be a preferred method. I'm coming up empty.

have you looked at a wells fargo bank in the last two years? all those red pans with channel letters mounted on them are dibond. I agree with you though, for my customers i would always use alum and glue and flush cut to an alum angle subframe for a pan sign.

 

[DizzyMarkus]

ty Keith --

always use alum and glue and flush cut to an alum angle subframe for a pan sign.

hence the glue question :0) The other was full frame or corners but still the glue was the major question.

Thank you,
Markus

 

[skyhigh]

have you looked at a wells fargo bank in the last two years? all those red pans with channel letters mounted on them are dibond. I agree with you though, for my customers i would always use alum and glue and flush cut to an alum angle subframe for a pan sign.

The most common method for me would be to bend the aluminum to form a pan, rather than use angle. For someone that dosen't have a brake, then the dibond/router method, or the aluminum angle would be another way to get the job done.

 

[rjssigns]

If I can get in contact with a friend I will ask what he uses to bond aluminum. He builds monocoque chassis for race cars with aluminum sheet with hexalite last time I talked to him. Whatever "bonding agent" he is using should be quite sufficient for signs, no?

 

[synergy_jim]

Call a local adhesives supplier. They will have epoxy panel adhesives that will work for your application.

 

[DizzyMarkus]

thank you all again for all the great ideas/info

Markus

 

[johnnysigns]

I do this every day with plastics. Use gussets where possible and a confirmed working epoxy/adhesive and it'd be quite strong. In my limited dibond production experience I've used gorilla glue in a pinch for something similar, although I'm sure there's better alternatives.

 

[Keith Jenicek]

Instead of using a V-bit, use a flat bottom V-bit. (If that isn't what you are already doing.)
If you are making a cabinet, you can do so using rivets. It requires a little planning on the cutout of your substrate though:
The top break and the side break will be rivited together on one side. That is the top or side, whichever will be less noticable. The key is creating a triangular "notch" on one side and an equal triangular "extra" piece on the other. After the "extra" piece is bent, it should align with the "notch". Where these pieces meet, add a small piece of Dibond to the inside and rivet them together.

 

[superjay5]

Having made thousands of Dibond/Alupanel Pans, in every way it is superior then a Aluminum .063 pan.

The quality, the bends, and the cost.


Use Alupanel, its a lot cheaper, get the Ultra Matte even cheaper yet, only comes in 4' x 8'

We CNC the Dibond/Alupanel first, the outer shape and all the v grooves and the 45 degrees at the corners so they come together perfect. We can route a 4' x 8' in under 10 minutes.

Then will will mount graphics, usually it is full coverage, full digital print. We will use a laminator to then mount the graphics. We flush cut to the edge of the panel, but in the corners we will wrap the graphics. When the pans get "glued" up, the corners will look perfect.

We then break the pan using really just our hands, then use the Lord 406/19 to glue in little angle aluminum Corner Keys.

The longest step in this process is letting the Lord Dry.

So why is this better then using .063 aluminum?

Dibond/Alupanel will NOT oil can, .063 aluminum will

How do you do the corners clean on .063? its a chore to make them look tight. I don't want to see any type of fasteners on our pans.

How do you break the aluminum? Before Graphics are applied? If so now you need to manually "wrap" the return.... labor intensive!

Break after graphics are applied? now you have to protect your graphics as you break your aluminum, don't want to damage those graphics!

The edge of the breaks will be cleaner looking on the Alupanel vs. the .063.

A quick look at list cost of materials: Ultra Matte Alupanel = $49.13
.063 prefinished White Aluminum = $73.26

The biggest factor is labor!!!! always is.

Trust me..... I have made a lot of RED pans

 

[smdgrfx]

I've been making the pans using aluminum angle corners and one brace in the middle from top to bottom. We rivet everything together and then apply graphics. Never thought about using an epoxy glue. I will look into that.