Gonna miss Win 7, where to next?

[Gene@mpls]

I have been trying to keep up with the discussions on Win 10 just to keep up with the class but have always considered it an OS best suited for touchscreen tablets. I have a couple of Win 8.1 tablets and have more or less made peace with them. I am retired from my company but still here every day and care very much about it and the people involved and advise and help whenever appropriate/needed. I am not the sharpest kid in class but have time for research and to try things for the company- and enjoy it. The new owner is a sharp young man and just bought a [basicly] gaming puter with Win 10 home [he was advised to at least get W10pro from what I have gleaned here].

It would be a real kindness for some of you who are more knowledgeable and have gone before us to write a short piece on what a small/medium signshop is going to do for a design/production OS. It appears that many challenges are being built into Win 10- how can we best approach the problems we are going to face? thanks Gene

 

[WildWestDesigns]

The new owner is a sharp young man and just bought a [basicly] gaming puter with Win 10 home [he was advised to at least get W10pro from what I have gleaned here].

I would have echoed the same thing here. At least Win 10 Pro. At least one can postpone updates for a time, hopefully, let the kinks be ironed out.

It appears that many challenges are being built into Win 10- how can we best approach the problems we are going to face? thanks Gene

Because feature updates are apart of the mandated OS updates, things are always going to be morphing. Run a very good risk of always playing catch up up and getting software playing nicely with the latest version of Win 10.

Some people use 3rd party scripts/programs to block the updates etc (those that still rely on the Host file for blocking are not going to be any use as Windows no longer looks and abides by the Host file (which is a big no no in my mind)). I'm not a fan of that in general, I worry about what the script/program is doing, but I also feel that this shouldn't be necessary. This should be able to be administered with built in tools in the OS (what they have taken out and/or buried deep within the OS is another matter, but I digress).

Sometimes that's an issue, sometimes it's not. While Win 10's various issues are well written about, there are some that don't have a lick of trouble. It's a crap shoot.

If you can, only update one computer at a time before it's deployed among them all in order to test things before your whole "fleet" is affected.

 

[unclebun]

This small sign shop uses Windows 10. We were on 7, but updated several years ago. We have on computer that gets turned on occasionally to run a machine that only has drivers for Windows XP, but we use that machine rarely.

It has meant upgrading software to versions that run on Windows 10, but since everything here is at most 13 years old, we didn't have to throw away any hardware to make the switch. We have not had any of the nightmare horror stories the press likes to tell about Windows Updates, etc., but I believe it's because we aren't running anything that is unusual in any way and haven't done any programming or oddball networking, etc. that is non-standard.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

but I believe it's because we aren't running anything that is unusual in any way and haven't done any programming or oddball networking, etc. that is non-standard.

Doesn't have to be unusual in the way of programs used. There have been problems with MS branded products. Their own. Last year's 2 major updates were deployed, then pulled back. They had update issues that affected their own Surface hardware (I think this happened earlier their year as a matter of fact).

There were issues with NAS shares (that's not unusual networking), that I don't think they have resolved fully.

Now, neither one has affected everybody, but I wouldn't discount it just because it didn't affect you.

Issues with updates happen to every OS out there (High Sierra had a bumpy start with root issues when it was first deployed). That's par for the course. MS is more susceptible due to all of the different hardware running their OS. However, when they force feature updates, sympathy goes down (I have no problem with forced security updates, none). There was an open letter about the issues of administrating Win 10 computers with such a breakneck pace. Feature updates twice a year with no in house testing team(people complain on here about the lacking of testing with certain programs due to how buggy they have been, if MS can't have an in house team, how do you think a lowly software vendor could as well?), I Just don't see that being a good policy.

As to programming, I don't know of a programmer that doesn't deploy their changes on a VM or on an isolated physical computer. I don't know any that deploy it on the same bare metal that they are coding on. Not to say that there aren't, but I don't know any, but that is just my experience.

Also keep in mind, MS does not have an in house testing team, they are solely dependent on the Insider's Program (where that data deleting bug was spotted, but still got deployed out in the wild). That same open letter that I mentioned above, actually called into question the effectiveness of the Insider's program especially since they data deleting bug made it out when it was spotted before.

I have the distinct feeling (and this is just me speculating, so take it for what it's worth) that Windows in today's world is second (or even third) fiddle in their mind now.

 

[pinkiss]

someone who uses win10 pro long time now, one thing i hated a lot was constant random updates- running in the background, now finally with latest windows 1904 update which was disaster i believe in april before they released one update that messed up many systems, they have implemented function to disable or postpone any updates up to a year if one wants to, also new update has its own vindows virtual machine - it needs to be enabled, but for say situations where you aint sure about a file its quite great thing to have on, as it loads full windows and lets you open test, apps files in environment that can be closed down without any damage or effects to the system..

As for bugs exploits no OS is immune to that, if your doing serious business and amounts its worth investing extra in proper router/firewall and some antivirus, truth be told most who try to exploit target unix based systems, as most servers are run on them, not many really go into trouble to hack single pcs.

think hardest issue is for anyone in print business is to migrate their drivers software to win 10, as some legacy printers etc, who stopped developing drivers or support might be pain to get working.
win 8.1 is def one that gives tablet vibe for users and dont think many use it anymore, as 7 was is great, but 10 runs as smoothly as one could get nowadays.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

As for bugs exploits no OS is immune to that, if your doing serious business and amounts its worth investing extra in proper router/firewall and some antivirus, truth be told most who try to exploit target unix based systems, as most servers are run on them, not many really go into trouble to hack single pcs.

I think there are a few municipalities that run Windows that would disagree with that that were hit with ransomware. Now, it is my opinion that ransomware wouldn't be an issue at all if people used proper backups (and this could be with any OS, backup, backup, backup). Proper backups would be 2 backups of at 2 different physical locations. Or shall we say 2 different physical addresses. Not just in 2 different rooms of the same building.

For those that believe in cloud backups, just take note of dentist offices that used a particular cloud backup that was designed for the dentistry marketplace, that cloud backup company was a target of malware and thru the backup company, ransomware was injected into their clients computer using the programs that sync'ed their client's computers with their servers to do the backup. The client's machines were Windows machines by the way. That was just this year as well.

think hardest issue is for anyone in print business is to migrate their drivers software to win 10, as some legacy printers etc, who stopped developing drivers or support might be pain to get working.

This is the issue with any feature upgrade with any OS. The problem that exponentially blows this even bigger is the fact that the OS is now a rolling release OS. Each new feature update version has a life cycle of 18 months last I checked. That's 18 months from when it was deployed, not from when you got it. I do believe that even Home versions with just this springs update could postpone the update (none are block, not even Enterprise, the delay is just longer). Anything can be deprecated and/or removed at a moment's notice. Hardware that might have worked in one version of Win 10, no longer works in the next.

You are correct that in most instances when servers are attached, they are unix or unix-like servers as they dominate that market. However, unix and unix-like machines have a better grasp over multi-user and permissions that fundamentally aren't done well in Windows, never have.

There are a few concerns that I have with Windows (and it's really always been this case) that make it an attractive target and it has nothing to do with the size of the target user base, that just happens to be a bonus.

To the OP: I'm not suggesting to switch platforms, for some that's a non issue for a variety of reasons. The thing is, Win 10 is not the same enterprise type of OS that most of us are used to and it has to be looked at differently (as much as we can look after it due to the lack of control that we have on this OS compared to others). Now, some may never have an issue, it seems like it goes in extremes, if you have issues, it seems like you always have issues. If you don't have issues, chances are you may not have issues at all.

 

[Signed Out]

So if we are running Win 7, what's going to happen? Looking for the short story. Is this like Y2K? Am I going to show up one morning and my computer not work?

Or is this more about when buying new puters?

 

[pinkiss]

ransomware was targeted towards hospitals pretty much as most devices used XP, same reason why US military pays microsoft to this day to keep XP patched up and running up to date, as all their combat defense radar systems, navigation still use XP, and it would cost tons of cash not to mention time and testing - thus it works cheaper to stick to what works, with extra pay.

thou if people run print shops and use xp-win 7 dont see reason why to move, if all works fine grand keep em pcs plugged to machinery, it wont stop because MS dont support it anymore.

but saying win 10 is lesser is nonsense, as no system is fault free. agree on backups if what you have is worth cash then surely buying few TBs which go pennies per GB these days is no brainer, doesnt have to be daily update, once a month after initial backup is what most need.

 

[unclebun]

So if we are running Win 7, what's going to happen? Looking for the short story. Is this like Y2K? Am I going to show up one morning and my computer not work?

Or is this more about when buying new puters?

When support ends, it likely will be similar to when support ended for XP, except possibly on a more accelerated schedule. When XP support ended, nothing happened. But security updates mostly stopped, at least on a routine basis. However when big vulnerabilities were discovered, they went ahead and issued updates. But after a couple of years, major antivirus companies stopped supporting XP, and fairly quickly hardware manufacturers quit providing drivers for XP in their new products. And it wasn't too long before new versions of software like Corel Draw or Adobe products weren't supported on XP.

That said, it has been announced that smaller businesses using Windows 7 Pro on individual desktop licenses, not just volume licenses, may purchase extended support contracts for at least up to two years. It will have an increasing price to incentivize you to leave Windows 7.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

ransomware was targeted towards hospitals pretty much as most devices used XP, same reason why US military pays microsoft to this day to keep XP patched up and running up to date, as all their combat defense radar systems, navigation still use XP, and it would cost tons of cash not to mention time and testing - thus it works cheaper to stick to what works, with extra pay.

That was only one instance where the targets were running XP that were hit. Ransomware doesn't have to affect the base system itself, but the files within the system. They target common file extensions that most people use.

Ransomware has been known to attack NAS shares even via Linux (and/or Mac) computers without inflicting issues on the base OS itself (they are like a typhoid mary if you will).

but saying win 10 is lesser is nonsense, as no system is fault free.

I said it was no longer the enterprise OS that most of us on here was used to. Forced feature updates (not security patches etc, but full fledge feature updates) is no bueno in an enterprise situation. Enterprise situations thrive on stability, that hasn't been the case for everyone, in fact, quite a few people it isn't been that way for everyone (I don't recall an open letter to MS about the woes of IT admins to this degree as well). Patches/security updates more often then not don't break things, that's why I don't have a problem with those being forced.

Arch is a damn good OS (I even have one install of it myself and I have had less issues with that then with my dad's Win 10 install), but I wouldn't advocate it for a prosumer(this would be us)/enterprise situation. It has it's place, but not in an environment such as that. Does that make Arch a lesser OS? No, it doesn't. Right tool for the job.

Windows is the "right tool" by the mere fact of what software is run on it, not that it's the best OS for the application anymore.

How many people have had issues with software going on the once a year release cadence (not all, but I would imagine that there are a few that have had issues)? MS is on twice a year with no in house testing team.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

So if we are running Win 7, what's going to happen? Looking for the short story. Is this like Y2K? Am I going to show up one morning and my computer not work?

Your computer and more likely then not, your software, just depends if it's perpetual or subscription licensed will still work. After a fashion, as was already mentioned, updates of any type and anti-virus programs will no longer be distributed to your computer. Even now, some programs while they may still support Win 7, all the new and exciting features are already not able to be used on a Win 7 computer (mainly due to the lack of hardware/drivers for Win 7, not always, but I would say more often then not).

If you are able to keep your computer offline (not connected to the WAN, LAN is OK, but not WAN) then shouldn't have much issue with anything. If you are connected to the WAN, then you are going to want to get current with everything.

Or is this more about when buying new puters?

There has always been some planned obsolescence here. Not just in this industry, but in others as well. Partly, that's how they get people to buy newer versions. If "you" were able to use that version that you bought in the 90s today (and you weren't missing any efficiency/improved features) quite a few would still run those old versions Some areas of computer usage move glacially, that's why being bleeding edge with the OS isn't always the best thing.