Gotta change inks - ES3 any good?

[Neil]

I have a CJV30, and here in Australia they were available with "Eco-HS1" inks, which is sort of in between ES3 and SS21 I believe.

Anyway, due to them not selling much of this ink, Mimaki have decided to discontinue it. So I'm now forced to switch inks.

Most users it seems are opting for the ES3, with our only other Mimaki alternative being "HS" or hard solvent ink which is pretty strong.
It looks like I'm forced to use ES3 if I want to stay with OEM inks.

But I remember looking at these inks when I bought the machine 3 years ago and was not impressed.
They were dull - as in not glossy - rather more satin and it stood out against gloss vinyl.
And they were dull - as in not bright - like burnt oranges and muddy reds. But this could be due to the profiles. But then again this was at a dealer demo...
And they scratch off. And they are slow drying which means they may not be dry when the print gets to the take up reel.

So I have to decide to either go with Es3, or possibly look at 3rd party options.

My likely outcome is I'll keep using my existing Eco-HS1 inks till there's no more left available (soon), then swap over to ES3.
I'll have to re-profile for my Signlab printmodes, but I don't mind doing that.


So, my first question - can I do the swap over myself? The tech said it just needs a head flush.
I'm capable of swapping dampers and can access the service menu and switch on individual cart valves.
I still have plenty of cleaning carts. So I reckon I can flush the lines and head okay manually.

Don't know how to tell the machine about the new type of inks used though? Can this be set in the Service Menu?


Question 2 - Should I stay away from the ES3 inks or are they okay? (As in - are they as good as Eco-sol max)


Question 3... Any viable alternatives re 3rd party chipped carts/bulk inks that will work in this machine ( or JV33) ?

 

[SightLine]

I do not really know whats available down under but I do know that a lot of people have a hard time finding good profiles for ES3 inks. SS21 is the way to go if sticking with OEM. Of course there is the strong odor with SS21 or any of the aftermarket solvent inks. Here in the USA Triangle JVV (cartridges and bulk) are very popular as is Bordeaux and Lyson inks. All of which are available for a JV33. We have been running Triangle JVV in ours for a few years with no real problems other than some issues with the cartrdiges themselves some time back but they fixed that (was a problem with the empty tab not coming out).

 

[Neil]

Thanks for they reply.
For some reason, Mimaki aren't allowed to sell the SS21 here. (some ingredient deemed unsafe here but nowhere else...)

I would rather not have a strong smell - I'm nearby in the same environment (although I do have an extraction fan). For that reason alone I'm thinking of using the Eco ES3. But it's no good to me if the prints aren't dry before they hit the take up reel...

But yeah, there's only a few profiles for ES3 in Rasterlink. And the test prints I saw from them were pretty ordinary.

I have an Eye One Pro and can make my own printmodes for Signlab.

The reason for thinking 3rd party inks are:

The machine is out of warranty and I've never had any support from Mimaki.
Mimaki inks cost around $800 for a set of 4 x 440mm
I'll need to make new profiles regardless

I think the ES3 is not very good - but I would like to hear from any current users. If it's as good as say Roland Ecosol Max I'd be happy enough with it.

 

[Neil]

Couple of Q's about the JVV carts:
How does the chip reading work? IOW, how does the machine react to these carts?

How strong is the smell? I can put up with some smell, but can't stand too much stink and fumes...

 

[SightLine]

If you are using a third party RIP and can make your own profiles then you are all set as far as profiles go. Canned profiles are generally crap anyways. In that case I'd look into a proven third party ink you can get there. Just a quick search shows Celmac carries Triangle inks there. For a JV33 Triangle has their SSE ink which is a "eco" solvent ink, JVV which is a full solvent ink, and BJV which is some sort of BIO solvent ink. Not sure whats available there though.

 

[Neil]

I'll give Celmac a call and ask them what they recommend.

According to their site, the JVV is MILD solvent - listed alongside the Ecosol's.

Do you use a chip resetter with your JV33?

 

[SightLine]

We have Triangles Eco-Bulk system which has an electronic chip override system and uses 2 liter bulk boxes of ink. It's not a tank style bulk system.

 

[petesign]

If you print a lot of banners, stay away from ES3 inks. Also, be prepared to Laminate EVERYTHING you print. I am about to switch from es3 inks to ss21, I am sick and tired of prints getting scratched from laying on the production table (yes, it is that bad).

 

[Bly]

Neil we use Bordeaux in our Rolands with zero problems apart from the empty tab occasionally not popping out. They reckon that issue has been sorted though.
Anitech is the local dealer. They say they will honor the remainder of the warranty on the new printer too. Luckily I haven't had to test this claim though.

 

[Neil]

If you print a lot of banners, stay away from ES3 inks. Also, be prepared to Laminate EVERYTHING you print. I am about to switch from es3 inks to ss21, I am sick and tired of prints getting scratched from laying on the production table (yes, it is that bad).

I do laminate pretty much everything - including banners where I roll on liquid lam. But I do remember the ES3 test samples I had did scratch and rub off easily.



Thanks Bly, I'll call Anitech here and check out Bordeux.
How bad is the smell?

 

[Bly]

I do laminate pretty much everything - including banners where I roll on liquid lam. But I do remember the ES3 test samples I had did scratch and rub off easily.



Thanks Bly, I'll call Anitech here and check out Bordeux.
How bad is the smell?

Very light smell mate. Colours are close to Roland inks.

 

[Neil]

The machine is out of warranty and I've never had any support from Mimaki.

Just reading back through this post and I realise this sounds a bit harsh.
I should have said I've never needed any support from Mimaki.

This machine has been trouble free - and so have the inks.
Most maintenance and printing issues have been able to be resolved by myself. But the odd time I've needed tech support, they are quick to respond with help.


So I'm going to go with the ES3 inks. Mimaki supply a new set of ink cartridges for the swap over, and it sounds relatively painless.
At least I'll get to try them myself and see how they go.

 

[ironchef]

So what's the verdict, which one do you like more? Is there really that few of profiles for es3 inks?

 

[Neil]

Haven't switched over yet. I'm going to hang off for as long as possible until I have to change. (When there's no more Eco-HS1 available anywhere).
Then I'll make my own printmodes for the ES3 inks for use in Signlab.

Hardly ever use Rasterlink, and although they have some good profiles for the inks I currently use, there's not many for ES3 and from what I've seen they aren't as good either.
(Dull, muddy reds and oranges)

Will keep you posted when I change over but it might take a couple of months yet.

 

[ironchef]

Its so confusing! Now theres a new ink thats inbetween hisolvent and eco, or something like that, its on the mimakiusa.com page, anyone used this?

 

[ironchef]

Or maybe I'm wrong i don't know, anyone know which machines are using rasterlink 6

 

[ironchef]

Ok, so rasterlink6 is for latex printers. Heard.