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Gotta love the people at zoning...

Kottwitz-Graphics

Kottwitz-Graphics

New Member
I got of the phone with the local zoning board, and I'm ready to beat my head on a brick wall...

I understand that you have to limit the size of the signs in a city, but I have a client that wants a sign out of city limits, so the county is in charge of setting the regs...

They told me that the max allowable area is 32 sq ft, and churches are exept from permiting....10 ' from property lines, max 8' high. No problems, my sign that I am proposing is 4' x 6' and its going to be 6' total height... 24 sq ft... except, since they are planning on a double sided sign, the county is thinking that it's now 48'...

So without thinking, I asked "your penalizing my client because they are using the second side of their sign?" :banghead:

Man, I hate these idiots that don't have a clue...
 
A

AnotherSignManiac

New Member
With my understanding, they aren't "penalizing" the sqft of a sign, is actually any signage that they have so they have an allotted 32 sqft of signage for x amount of property/store frontage that they own/rent.
 
C

CanuckSigns

Active Member
our city has some of the most inconsistent sign by-laws i've ever seen, depending on how they feel like classifying your sign, the second side may not count towards the total square footage. Unless the sign is for the city, than the bylaws don't matter.

They just recently put up a new sign in front of city hall that has 3-4 blatant violations of the bylaw (too close to the property line, too close to another permanent sign, the LED message board changes too frequently) But this city is so corrupt it's not suprizing.
 
Rick

Rick

Certified Enneadecagon Designer
Not that it does not exist, but I have never heard of zoning adding both sides of a double face sign (unless it was a "V" shaped sign) as part of the total square footage. The double faced sign is viewed at elevation, you can't see both sides at the same time, square footage is usually based on a single elevation view.

I have had issues on "V" shaped, 3 sided and 4 sided signs...
 
Rick

Rick

Certified Enneadecagon Designer
jhilldesigns said:
both sides are always counted in my city/county
Click to expand...

I had to look that up...


B. Measurement of Sign Area.
1. The surface area of a sign shall be calculated by enclosing the extreme limits of any writing, logo, representation, emblem, or other display within a single continuous perimeter composed of squares or rectangles with no more than eight lines.
2. Supporting framework or bracing that is clearly incidental to the display itself shall not be computed as sign area.
3. If the sign consists of more than one section or module, all of the area, including the area between the sections or modules, shall be included in the computation of sign area.
4. Double-faced (back-to-back) freestanding signs shall be regarded as a single sign only if the distance between each sign face does not exceed 2 feet. However, each sign face shall be considered a separate sign for the purpose of calculating sign area.
5. Where a sign consists of one or more three-dimensional objects (i.e., balls, cubes, clusters of objects, sculptures, or statue-like trademarks), the sign area shall be measured as their maximum projection upon a vertical plane.
6. For signs that incorporate time and temperature devices, the area of these devices shall not be included in the total area of the sign.
 
oldgoatroper

oldgoatroper

Roper of Goats. Old ones.
AznSensation said:
At least they give you a response...

Chicago doesn't give you an answer after 6 weeks.
Click to expand...


In Canada, there is a little-known legal device that, if you have something similar in the U.S., you may be able to take advantage of.

While I'm not sure of all the ins and outs, it goes something like this: If you are having difficulty getting a public servant to address issues, there is a way to get something called a "Writ of Execution" from a judge that forces the public servant to do their job forthwith and with no further delay with regards to the issues as they specifically relate to you.

A contractor I know needed a letter from the provincial WCB confirming his company had been covered for the duration of the construction work he had performed so that he could get final payment from the general contractor. After several phone calls, faxes and emails, there still was no letter -- something very simple, commonplace and no reason for it being delayed. He hadn't even got any response at all from them -- they were just being lazy, incompetent or whatever. Finally went and got a Writ of Execution and got his letter.

I don't know how this is served -- whether personally or by a sheriff -- I'll have to ask him.
 
weaselboogie

weaselboogie

New Member
oldgoatroper said:
A contractor I know needed a letter from the provincial WCB confirming his company had been covered for the duration of the construction work he had performed so that he could get final payment from the general contractor. After several phone calls, faxes and emails, there still was no letter -- something very simple, commonplace and no reason for it being delayed. He hadn't even got any response at all from them -- they were just being lazy, incompetent or whatever. Finally went and got a Writ of Execution and got his letter.
.
Click to expand...

I love stuff like that... That reminds me of the guy who took Wells Fargo to court because they wouldn't respond to an inquiry. He took them to court, won and went so far as to get an inventory of their local branch for sheriff's auction.
http://articles.philly.com/2011-02-...-fees-full-replacement-value-default-judgment
 
G

genericname

New Member
watsons signs said:
our city has some of the most inconsistent sign by-laws i've ever seen, depending on how they feel like classifying your sign, the second side may not count towards the total square footage. Unless the sign is for the city, than the bylaws don't matter.
Click to expand...

I can think of a few towns in particular that you may be referring to. Where are you based?
 
G

genericname

New Member
watsons signs said:
Hamilton, the armpit of Ontario
Click to expand...

I suppose Ontario can have two armpits.

My friends and I have always referred to Sudbury as Ontario's armpit, with Timmins as the nether region. I would've thought Hamilton more of an upper-colon kind of place.

Back to business... the idea of the back side of a two-sided sign being considered a second sign seems ridiculous to me, but I wouldn't put it past zoning departments. Is that a common practice? I can juuuuust understand the square footage thing, but a second sign? Pshaw.
 
Circleville Signs

Circleville Signs

New Member
Our little town is an interesting study in permits. You have two entities - the City and the County. About 5 years ago, the City got rid of their enforcement arm for permitting. The just handed it off to the county. The County doesn't give a rat's a$$ about signs, unless they are just so grotesquely outside the bounds of common sense that they don't have a choice. Now, you still have to get a permit from the City. And TECHNICALLY, you have to get a building permit, then a tacked on sign permit from the county, even if you aren't breaking ground. But unless it's a new construction no one ever messes with the county. And the City doesn't give a rip about what a sign looks like unless it's in the historic district (which has one of the most effed up sign codes I've ever seen).

It's a fun town to work in....lol.
 
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