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Graphic Design School OR ???

What would be the best way to better my skills and learn more about sign making and designing. Ive heard 50/50 that graphic design classes or both good and bad. Just looking to see what you guys recommend. Should I just continue to teach myself? Go to school, if so for what exactly? I am learning a lot from here already but want to be the best I can be. Thanks!
 

Zazzess

New Member
Thanks for this thread.

What would be the best way to better my skills and learn more about sign making and designing. Ive heard 50/50 that graphic design classes or both good and bad. Just looking to see what you guys recommend. Should I just continue to teach myself? Go to school, if so for what exactly? I am learning a lot from here already but want to be the best I can be. Thanks!

Hi ! Your question is really interesting and I been wondering what would be the best for me ... looking forward for the answers you'll receive.

:thankyou:
 

wildside

New Member
design school is good, however natural talent cannot be taught. best way to learn about the sign industry is to work for a sign company for a few years to get a grasp on things

most graphic designers know jack about sign design, they make pretty pictures and not legible functional advertising signs :peace!:
 

WrapperX

New Member
Design school will teach you the elements of a "good design" however the typicall techniques they teach you in design school are geared torward the print market - like page layout and logo design. Which are used in sign making but sign making is not limited to logo design and page layout. It wouldn't hurt to have that design school background as a knowledge of font types, page layout -balanced visuals, color theory, etc. However to really learn sign making design you need to learn on the job.

My 2¢
 

Pat Whatley

New Member
The worth of design school is going to have more to do with the ability of the person teaching the class than anything else and whether they view it as a talent or a skill set.
It's a good place to start, though.
 

Billct2

Active Member
I think it's a good idea to take design classes, even if you can't get ones geared to sign design. I don't know that getting a degree is all that important as much as learning the tools and basic design techniques. Then do your self study with the good sign & logo design books and trade magazines.
 

Fred Weiss

Merchant Member
As you go about your business, look at the various signs you encounter. Ask yourself what you like and/or don't like about each one. Then look at those likes and dislikes with an eye towards their details ...

  • Color combinations
  • Typefaces
  • Layout
  • Effects used (if any)
How was each detail accomplished? Where is your eye drawn? Where next? Is there a priority to the components of the layout? What message does it convey?

Learn how to create each component that you like in you chosen software. Incorporate it into the layouts you do for clients and see what their feedback is.
 

Fitch

New Member
Fred has put it perfectly.

Take a small digital camera with you EVERYWHERE. Start with the supermarket and go up and down the aisles. Take a photo of EVERYTHING that "appeals" to you and what you feel would make a good / great sign. Keep these in a file on your computer.

Take a photo of all the good signs that appeal to you. This will help you develop a certain "style". You may like colourful, or radical, or calm, or historical, or abstract.

The most important thing to do is BREAK IT DOWN. Every single sign is merely a composite of individual elements. "UNDO" the sign / label - see if you can determine how it was done by the creator. Determine what colours work together and why. Some with compliment - some will oppose. Fonts have their own feel to them. Some classy - some classic, some grunge like.

Find a great looking sign and reproduce it. Change a few things - colour, layout, detail.

Finally - get Mike Stevens book Mastering Layout... http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Layout-Art-Eye-Appeal/dp/091138068X

Signs are NOT just a case of slapping this that and the other together. All elements have to "sing" when placed together.

Salt looks like sugar and talc looks like flour. But mixing them with egg and butter will make a horrible horrible cake.

Cheers - G
 
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Joe Diaz

New Member
All good points, I thought I might add this: Whether you go to school or not, You should subscribe to signcraft. I would argue that it would teach you more than any single textbook. Then get out there and meet other sign makers. Go to letterhead meets or trade shows or walldog events. They are full of both people who want to learn and people who are willing to teach. These are perfect places to learn new things and connect with people you will continue to learn from/with as your business grows.
 

Craig Sjoquist

New Member
Fitch.. made some great points as well the best is ..READING >>> Mike Stevens Mastering Layout .... also Dan Antonelli Logo Design ..1 & 2 ( merchant member).

The Mike Stevens theory was taught in sign school not sure if any are open anymore darn PCs
 

Billct2

Active Member
look at the various signs you encounter. Ask yourself what you like and/or don't like about each one
.
I know this is usually good advice, but I am encountering more and more people (and sign people at that) that "like" poor designs.
 

mikey-Oh

New Member
I don't believe/live with regret.... however, if I had a second chance I would not be 20+ grand in debt. I'm one of those lucky types that has an inherent sense of design and would be in a much better place in life w/o school.

My advice to those interested but not sure how to proceed.... get a job for someone else in the field before you commit. It's sooo much better to be paid to learn.I paid for the privilege of teachers showing me tutorials and never really discussing the business side of things.
For those who've dropped the cash and jumped into the industry w/o any experience or knowledge. Best o' luck and let me know what you'll be willing to take for your equipment when bad went worse.
 

TheSellOut

New Member
There are a lot of great posts here by everyone and this is turning into a great thread!!

Joe Di-az is right on the money with Sign Craft! I would also suggest searching through Signs101 for posts by a fellow member here "Rick", he designs some of the roundiest circles you've ever layed eyes on! Seriously he has posted a ton of great links throughout his time here, which I for one am very thankful for Rick!!

Also search "logo critique" or "logo design" etc...and you will find a lot of good threads that will showcase good and bad design alike!

YouTube

Lynda . com

There are plenty of good ways to teach yourself and I feel that if you have the eye, some of the talent, and a lot of drive that you can take yourself a long way!!

That a degree has the possibility of taking you farther in an office/business setting though!

But on the other hand I think in the design industry, passing as an "Adobe Certified Expert" in any or all Creative suite programs (along with a great portfolio) could be as good as a design degree...should be anywho
 

Bobby H

Arial Sucks.
Here's the thing you have to consider:
Will the formal training help me make more money?

In many cases the answer is no. There's too many self taught amateurs working in various fields of graphic design. Too many people doing the hiring don't do enough to examine portfolios. Or they just don't care about paying more for a formally trained designer when a self taught candidate willing to work for less has work that is "good enough." For some, the job of graphic designer is a cool "glamor job." Others don't respect the trade, figuring the computers are doing all the work and all that's needed is one of life's screw-ups to click the buttons.

A degree isn't going to do much more other than perhaps open doors to opportunities that might not be there otherwise. An art degree certainly can help if you're wanting to start your own business. It's one of a number of things that will help banks believe you are a good investment on lending start up capital. A carefully crafted business plan is a must.

When I say this, bear in mind I have four year art degree. A BFA in illustration actually.

In terms of becoming a better artist (not necessarily making more money), YES, absolutely, good quality formal training helps. I agree with others many graphic design courses are centered around page layout. Nevertheless, there's a lot of valuable knowledge that comes from learning disciplines of page layout, typography, color theory, visual problem solving, composition. There's many different graphic design conventions that have come and gone. Understanding the history and application of those trends will help with various projects when you're going after a certain look.

There's a lot of technical schools and what not who really don't teach graphic design. They do more to merely teach people how to click around in Photoshop, Illustrator or (gag) Microsoft Publisher. The important stuff is what goes on in your head or perhaps doodled on paper before any clicking goes on in Illustrator. The visual concept and skillful execution of it is the real deal.

Yes, there is no substitute for talent. However, a good art education will help a talented person focus that talent better and more productively. It will aid the artist in striving to improve and establish his or her own niche.
 

signswi

New Member
If you want to be a graphic designer, yes, if you want to be a sign person, no--there are very few really good designers working in the "sign" field and even less jobs as much of the industry really doesn't care about good design. You won't learn anything about signs in a 4 year design program (and shouldn't really, it's a design field baseline, not a specific field technical degree). Now you COULD study environmental design and be very well off but there are very few programs and they're quite expensive. Also not placement targeted for your typical sign company but for large architectural firms. Really interesting field but costly to enter and you'll need high marks from high school to get into such programs and an established portfolio.

Now, there are a lot of exceptions on this board but that's the reality of the industry. Most sign shops are pretty bottom of the barrel as far as design is concerned. Just learn as much as you can and grind away. Things I consider baseline:

1) Firm grasp on art history
2) Excellent typographic skills
3) Standard color theory, compositional theory knowledge
4) Above average computer skills (more and more design is blurred into the realm of development as everything goes web, and the web becomes more and more sophisticated)
5) Thorough understanding of technical design elements -- ppi, color management, prepress considerations, etc. Many designers fall flat here and it shows

Mostly though it takes time. Learn something new every day. If you went a whole day without challenging yourself and learning a new skill, technique, or gained some bit of valuable knowledge you wasted that day. Just a good way to live and really, really necessary in design which is a rapidly moving field with heavy competition.
 

Dan Antonelli

New Member
there are very few really good designers working in the "sign" field and even less jobs as much of the industry really doesn't care about good design.

Just my opinion, but therein lies the opportunity to actually stand out among a sea of mediocrity. Contrary to popular belief, there still are a lot of clients willing to pay good money for good design. It's not hard to see why some can get it and some can't.

Regarding SignCraft - if you want to download 30 or so of my articles for free, they are available on my site under the About Us tab.

As for me, I grew up pinstriping and lettering, worked in a sign shop, and went to college for a degree in Communications/Advertising. Its one thing to be a good designer, and understand the theories of good design. It's another to understand the marketing of a business and what role design plays in their marketing. If you can get a good blend of both at college, it will serve you well.

In my opinion, there's a need for good wrap designers that understand the medium well, and the marketing behind the medium. Many don't have a proper understanding and education about the medium and how it's supposed to work.
 

SignManiac

New Member
Excellent advice Dan:goodpost:

As for me, I never went to school or worked in a sign shop. I'm entirely self taught and learned by my mistakes, a far more expensive education in my opinion. Only because of my passion, desire and obsession to be as good as possible, I spent the past thirty six years striving to make every single sign better than the one that came before it. I read every possible book and magazine that I could get my hands on, tried every possible technique I could think of, and criticized every single sign I made in order to become the best I could be. I have never been satisfied that good is good enough, or that the customer is always right. I have no problem turning any client away that will not let me do my best work. It's my reputation on the line, not theirs.

Bottom line, you have to have at the very least, the basic fundamentals to begin with. Great design doesn't happen by accident. There is a knowledge base that is essential and without it, you won't get very far. School, books, an apprenticeship in a "good" working shop, are all ways to better your skill sets.

Ten years ago I offered and taught an accelerated sign making program. In one intensive forty hour week, my students would know more about how to run a successful sign operation than any of the local sign companies in my town who had been in the business for years. I stressed exceptional design, sound business principles, psychology as it applies to sales and people, software along with fabrication, tips and tricks. I literally fried my students brains but when the left here they had a thorough understanding of what running a real sign business involved.

Understand one thing...You can stay in this profession for the rest of you life and NEVER stop learning. I still haven't after nearly four decades.

And....Dan is right about quality. There are more clients out there than you can imagine who appreciate design and are willing to pay top dollar for it. The problem is a shortage of us in this industry who can provide that service.
 

Marlene

New Member
heck with your local community college as they some times have a local designer teaching their classes. I took some a long time ago and a local designer who did this for a living was the teacher. I found it really helpful as she worked in biz and it is nice to get that kind of insight. I also took some classes at the University of Vermont. those were taught by professors who aren't in the biz. at UVM, I also took a class on fonts which was so cool.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
Excellent advice Dan:goodpost:

As for me, I never went to school or worked in a sign shop. I'm entirely self taught and learned by my mistakes, a far more expensive education in my opinion. Only because of my passion, desire and obsession to be as good as possible, I spent the past thirty six years striving to make every single sign better than the one that came before it. I read every possible book and magazine that I could get my hands on, tried every possible technique I could think of, and criticized every single sign I made in order to become the best I could be. I have never been satisfied that good is good enough, or that the customer is always right. I have no problem turning any client away that will not let me do my best work. It's my reputation on the line, not theirs.

Bottom line, you have to have at the very least, the basic fundamentals to begin with. Great design doesn't happen by accident. There is a knowledge base that is essential and without it, you won't get very far. School, books, an apprenticeship in a "good" working shop, are all ways to better your skill sets.

Ten years ago I offered and taught an accelerated sign making program. In one intensive forty hour week, my students would know more about how to run a successful sign operation than any of the local sign companies in my town who had been in the business for years. I stressed exceptional design, sound business principles, psychology as it applies to sales and people, software along with fabrication, tips and tricks. I literally fried my students brains but when the left here they had a thorough understanding of what running a real sign business involved.

Understand one thing...You can stay in this profession for the rest of you life and NEVER stop learning. I still haven't after nearly four decades.

And....Dan is right about quality. There are more clients out there than you can imagine who appreciate design and are willing to pay top dollar for it. The problem is a shortage of us in this industry who can provide that service.

I can agree with everything except with what's in bold in some instances. If people see a shoddy sign, no matter how good the company is, those potential customers might come to the conclusion that it's a shoddy company as well.

First impressions mean a lot and that does affect the reputation of our customers as well.

If they give out cheap "freebies", then people might also think that they are cheap in other areas as well.

Now it might not affect their reputation as much (depends on the "violation"), but there is an impact.

Now they might turn around and blame you for what's happened to their reputation, but it's theirs on the line as well.
 
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