Need Help Has anyone ever approached their City Council to review and change a city ordinance for sign placement?

[SignTexAbilene]

I put up a sign and the city sent us a notice saying it did not comply with zoning ordinances. Turns out, you can't have off-site signage in the downtown business district. This means there is no advertising in the downtown area (what??). It's an LED sign on a business property, advertising other local businesses for ad revenue. I'm planning on going to the City Council meeting next Thursday to try to persuade them to change the ordinance, but thought I'd see if anyone here has ever done anything like this before? Thanks in advance!

 

[pro-UP]

You'll want to request a variance. They may have a required form for you to use. You plead your case or reasoning explaining why what you're doing should be approved (even though it is outside what is currently permissible). They will either approve or deny the variance. In some instances you can appeal their decision if it goes against you, but those are not always successful or even possible depending on the city. Documentation and preparation are the key to success with these. Make sure you have clear examples of other businesses already going against this ordinance. Make sure you have clear and concise reasoning spelled out, so when you speak you can stay on point. This part really depends. One I participated in was a closed session, so I wasn't even there. I submitted all the required documentation and a summary statement providing the reason for the variance request. That one was approved. In another instance, where I was present, the variance was denied. If you are planning on attending the next session, you should also find out how to get your issue added to the docket. Good luck!

 

[JBurton]

If you're a member of the ISA, they have a whole team that tackles these.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

There's nothing wrong with that ordinance. Do you really want to look at permanent randomly placed tacky ass LED boards advertising nonsense all over your city just so you or your customer can make money? TBH, it's dumb stuff like this that force the municipalities to make an encyclopedia of rules.
I do not see them entertaining a variance for this.

 

[unclebun]

Most towns don't allow off-premise advertising, but if they do, there are specific requirements before they can be installed. Beyond that, most towns also have restrictions on LED displays.

If this is a town in which you have your shop, I'd suggest you get a copy of your town's sign ordinances and learn them. You installed a fairly expensive sign and developed a business model for its use without making sure it was something that complied with the ordinance, and you didn't get a permit before installing a sign, which requires not only a physical installation but also electrical wiring. This would also require that the building inspector come out to inspect the structure and the wiring before signing off on the installation.

It's actions like yours from people owning sign shops that had no education in the field which have led to all these restrictive sign ordinances in the first place. Rather than trying to get the ordinance changed, try to stay within the lines. In this case, the ordinance you are wanting to have changed is actually a good one for the city and its businesses.

 

[Stacey K]

There's nothing wrong with that ordinance. Do you really want to look at permanent randomly placed tacky ass LED boards advertising nonsense all over your city just so you or your customer can make money? TBH, it's dumb stuff like this that force the municipalities to make an encyclopedia of rules.
I do not see them entertaining a variance for this.

I agree. I'm not sure what the benefit would be except "making money".

 

[JBurton]

It's an LED sign on a business property, advertising other local businesses for ad revenue

I guess I didn't read this post. That's not what one would consider a sign, to, ya know, attract customers to a location. That's a billboard, meant to generate revenue on it's own, therefore it's what my town considers a blight. Don't accelerate the invasion of ads irl, ad blockers for windshields are only in their infancy...

 

[DL Signs]

One thing I haven't seen happen in my lifetime yet is a variance being granted for something after you've already committed a violation of by putting it up. Good luck...

 

[gnubler]

I guess I didn't read this post. That's not what one would consider a sign, to, ya know, attract customers to a location. That's a billboard, meant to generate revenue on it's own, therefore it's what my town considers a blight. Don't accelerate the invasion of ads irl, ad blockers for windshields are only in their infancy...

Come on, we aren't exposed to that many ads on a daily, incessant, mind blowing basis. I mean, I just got a new laptop and immediately installed Firefox with AdBlocker, and by the next day I got a popup saying it had already blocked 1,000 ads. That doesn't sound too bad...

 

[JBurton]

One thing I haven't seen happen in my lifetime yet is a variance being granted for something after you've already committed a violation of by putting it up. Good luck...

Unfortunately, around here it's not uncommon. For instance, 100% glass coverage is against the ordinance, everybody is limited to 25%. That hasn't stopped the single employee print shops from covering windows entirely with perf. Meanwhile I'm declining these jobs. They tried to revamp the whole sign code when this really started happening more frequently, but enough folks showed up and poked holes in the new ordinance that they just tabled it until we sign folks aren't looking, then they'll push it through. So now 25% coverage is still on the books, but you can get away with it all day.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Unfortunately, around here it's not uncommon. For instance, 100% glass coverage is against the ordinance, everybody is limited to 25%. That hasn't stopped the single employee print shops from covering windows entirely with perf. Meanwhile I'm declining these jobs. They tried to revamp the whole sign code when this really started happening more frequently, but enough folks showed up and poked holes in the new ordinance that they just tabled it until we sign folks aren't looking, then they'll push it through. So now 25% coverage is still on the books, but you can get away with it all day.

They'll make you remove it around here which is good. It's trashy looking and have never understood why anyone would want their place of business covered head to toe in crap. It sucks looking out of it as well.

 

[DL Signs]

Unfortunately, around here it's not uncommon. For instance, 100% glass coverage is against the ordinance, everybody is limited to 25%. That hasn't stopped the single employee print shops from covering windows entirely with perf. Meanwhile I'm declining these jobs. They tried to revamp the whole sign code when this really started happening more frequently, but enough folks showed up and poked holes in the new ordinance that they just tabled it until we sign folks aren't looking, then they'll push it through. So now 25% coverage is still on the books, but you can get away with it all day.

A portion of a downtown district in one of the cities here doesn't allow any exterior window graphics. There are no exceptions, they won't give a warning, and they'll fine by the day for every day they can prove they are up.

 

[Gino]

It sure it was already said, but how did you get the sign in the first place to meet code before installing it ?? Did you go through proper channels and engineering to get permission ??

 

[Creative Sign Guy(s)]

Sign regulations can be very persnickety. The city I live and work in has so many rules that roughly 90% of signs do not conform to regulations. Technically, A-frames are not allowed as the standard signacade we sell constantly is 2x3 ft of signage per side, which they count as 12 sq ft of signage. The regulatory limit is 4 sq ft for sidewalk signage. There are 100s of A-frames all over.
There are so many examples of technically illegal signs everywhere, but they never seem to enforce it unless someone complains.
E.g. A local business wanted to play by the rules, so they were going through the city having all the signs they wanted me to make approved. They were about 6 months in and barely through any of the red tape. One of the people they were talking to in order to get approval told them(paraphrasing), "Just put your signs up. Unless someone complains we won't enforce anything. Your signs are reasonable and not an eyesore. You have nothing to worry about".
They stopped trying to get approval.
I made their signs.
They have been up for several years now without problems.

That being said, a giant flashing billboard would almost certainly generate a complaint or several.
Mind your local authorities.

 

[MJ-507]

1. Does the city where the sign was installed not require a permit before you install a sign? I'm in the Atlanta metro & every single town and city requires a permit for almost any sign - including on-property directionals & whatnot.
2. You need to do your due diligence and research the sign ordinance along with, sometimes, the fire code, subsections of electrical code, etc. before you design, build, or install, etc., any sign. And, even if the permitting office doesn't require it, a sign of this nature, should be reviewed and stamped drawings provided by a capable structural engineer. It's worth the few hundred dollars it should cost to have some peace knowing that the sign shouldn't fall over and kill someone. Unless there is a tornado. Or a typhoon. Or donkeys on acid fall from the sky.

 

[MikePro]

most downtown areas won't grant you such a variance nor rewrite code to open the door for such things.

If your client is hellbent on having an EMC billboard for selling adspace, then put it on a trailer and park it in the lot. ....or even park it on the street and just build the cost of daily parking violations into the adspace.

 

[Brandon708]

I put up a sign and the city sent us a notice saying it did not comply with zoning ordinances. Turns out, you can't have off-site signage in the downtown business district. This means there is no advertising in the downtown area (what??). It's an LED sign on a business property, advertising other local businesses for ad revenue. I'm planning on going to the City Council meeting next Thursday to try to persuade them to change the ordinance, but thought I'd see if anyone here has ever done anything like this before? Thanks in advance!

Wow. You must be new to the sign industry to just realize that you can just install a "LED Billboard" somewhere and expect to get away with it. That does fall under Offsite Advertising and isn't allowed in almost all of the towns in my area. You would of probably got it approved if it was for the onsite business. But that is if it fits the allowed size, doesn't exceed the number of allowed signs, if they even allow Electronic Message Centers (EMCs), or if you got a sign variance BEFORE you installed it.

This is a battle you will lose. Sorry.

 

[JBurton]

If your client is hellbent on having an EMC billboard for selling adspace, then put it on a trailer and park it in the lot. ....or even park it on the street and just build the cost of daily parking violations into the adspace.

We have an ordinance against not just that, but any vehicle lettered that isn't utilized. We have a car wash that didn't realize this, bought a box truck, got it lettered, and the city told them to remove the truck or lettering. It sat at that car wash for 4 years unlettered.

 

[Creative Sign Guy(s)]

We have an ordinance against not just that, but any vehicle lettered that isn't utilized. We have a car wash that didn't realize this, bought a box truck, got it lettered, and the city told them to remove the truck or lettering. It sat at that car wash for 4 years unlettered.

We have the same ordinances, but no one enforces them. I did a billboard truck wrap 6 years ago. It hasn't moved since and it is right off the highway.

 

[MikePro]

well that's a horse of a different color!
...put it on cinderblocks and build the cost of replacing the sign & daily $$$penalties into the adspace & repeat as necessary until the city dump fills up.