Welcome To Signs101.com: Largest Forum for Signmaking Professionals

Signs101.com: Largest Forum for Signmaking Professionals is the LARGEST online community & discussion forum for professional sign-makers and graphic designers.

 


  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

HDU Pricing

Discussion in 'CNC Routing & Laser Cutting' started by kustomkoncepts, Dec 2, 2008.

  1. kustomkoncepts

    kustomkoncepts Member

    364
    0
    0
    Nov 21, 2007
    I have a wholesale job to do for a franchise sign shop in town. V carved primed and painted 1" HDU signs I was going for $45 Sq FT includes all materials and labor. Is this a good wholesale cost that I should be at?

    They send the Line art to me, But I have to make the tool paths, I have all the equipment, Programs, paint booth and doing all the labor. he's just a salesmans and installer.

    He tells me he sells them for $75 SQ FT so he is doing pretty good for not having any skill, equipment, software or labor or overhead involved.

    This will be my first HDU signs and I want to be priced where everyone else is. does this sound about right or should whole sale be Higher? also what is the average retail. Remember it is pretty simple just V Carving No 3D or Hogging.

    Thanks
     
    Tags:
  2. iSign

    iSign Major Contributor

    13,027
    31
    48
    Nov 29, 2003
    Kahului, Maui
    $45 is WAAYYY too low for wholesale IMO!
    I think $100/sq. ft. is an average figure for retail. I consistently charge more than that, although I am fairly new to dimensional signs myself.

    I also think like any pricing question, the "market value" is only part of the picture.
    Have you been own that whole path of setting your own "shop rate" based on YOUR actual overhead? This is a critical bit of homework if you haven't done it already.

    I've written my version, and others have written it here as well, so a search for "shop rate" should give you that info without typing it again.

    Obviously, as you stated, V-Carve signs take less machine time than other routed signs, so selling by the sq. ft. is going to be a bad system to start, especially with easier files now. If he thinks your price is X, and he "sells' a complex sign... he's not going to like finding out the price went up... but you aren't going to want to be expected to take on harder jobs unless you can make more.

    Selling YOUR work should only net someone about 15% in my opinion. If you sold for $65/sq. ft. , his 15% brings it up to $75/ sq. ft. If he is doing the design work, that should be sold separately, like it always should.
     
  3. iSign

    iSign Major Contributor

    13,027
    31
    48
    Nov 29, 2003
    Kahului, Maui
    Also, with such a good set-up, and the skills... you should go out and beat the bushes for retail work, and let this guy wait in line for the discounted stuff... unless you really despise selling & don't mind giving up that segment of the jobs.
     
  4. Bigdawg

    Bigdawg Just Me

    7,459
    133
    63
    Jun 8, 2005
    Sunny Florida
    I pay $42/sf wholesale in the Tampa Bay area...
     
  5. Jillbeans

    Jillbeans Major Contributor

    14,457
    19
    38
    Dec 24, 2003
    Butler, PA
    I think you are both selling too cheap.
    I don't do a lot of HDU, and what I did do was sandblasted with a bit of scrollwork, but even 15 years ago I was getting $75/sq. ft. retail.
    Love....Jill
     
  6. kustomkoncepts

    kustomkoncepts Member

    364
    0
    0
    Nov 21, 2007
    Like I said he is just a salesman that bought a Franshise name he has no skill, or ability to do anything himself personally. the shop is ran by Min Wage employees. they have a 54" VP printer a laminator, table, and fancy retail spot next to a busy street.
     
  7. kustomkoncepts

    kustomkoncepts Member

    364
    0
    0
    Nov 21, 2007
    The shop I am doing it for claims he does sell at $74/sq ft. but has me doing all the work at $45. reminder it is a really simple design 48"x22" v cave text. white and blue paint.

    sorry $75 Sq Ft
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2008
  8. iSign

    iSign Major Contributor

    13,027
    31
    48
    Nov 29, 2003
    Kahului, Maui
    ummm... if prices for dimensional work were $75 15 years ago...

    ...why should he sell them that cheap today? answer: HE SHOULDN'T

    ...and even if he does, why should he make more than 15% comission for "selling". Surely he is charging for design (& if not he is a lowballing scumsucking parasite to the industry) ..AND surely, if there is a god... he is charging a seperate fee to install the signs (& if not he is... well, you get the idea)

    What do you mean:
    YOU set your prices, and it sounds like you KNOW that you are getting the short end.... after expenses, he probably walks away with double or triple the profit that you take home for every hour worked on his crap. IT'S A BUM DEAL... STOP DOING IT!

    hope that helps.

    by the way, you didn't answer my question about establishing shop rate based on your overhead??
     
  9. kustomkoncepts

    kustomkoncepts Member

    364
    0
    0
    Nov 21, 2007
    I know I am at $225.00 Daily 20 Days a month just for overhead. I work average 12-18 Hrs mon-fri 8-12 Hrs Saturday and try to only do 6 Hrs Sundays. I am also here over holidays.

    I think i am doing pretty good from starting with only an airbrush I have quite a bit of tools and equipment in my shop now because of all the work and hours.

    I keep telling my self that I am in the building steeps of the shop. I look forward to when I will own the CNC 3 more years and printer 18 payments. that will be $1,500.00 less a month I will have to make.

    Yes I don't like what this other shop is doing to me but I take it it is better to make some mony then no money at all. and I am not lowballing anyone with wholesale I am only hurting myself because he takes my work and sells it at a premium.

    Ex he only wants to pay $50 to cut up sheet of Ultra Core or poly metal into shapes or letters. I did sell my first Dementional letter indoor sign. it used 1 sheet of 3/4" Ultra Core $80 sheet and some flat black and little vinyl. $130 Materials tops. I sold it at $900 installed. so I know when I cut letters for him at $50 what he is able to sell them at.
     
  10. Jillbeans

    Jillbeans Major Contributor

    14,457
    19
    38
    Dec 24, 2003
    Butler, PA
    Then he should be paying you even more to make him look good!!!!
     
  11. iSign

    iSign Major Contributor

    13,027
    31
    48
    Nov 29, 2003
    Kahului, Maui
    WRONG!!

    You are hurting the industry, $75/sq. ft. is NOT a premium!!
     
  12. WILLIAMS

    WILLIAMS Active Member

    610
    0
    16
    May 29, 2008
    pa
    $45 seems low... but I've seen wholesale rates in the $50-65 range.
     
  13. kustomkoncepts

    kustomkoncepts Member

    364
    0
    0
    Nov 21, 2007
    Now is that wholesale you saw for 1" HDU, CNC, Primed and Painted?

    because the back pages of Sign Business that is where I saw $45 finished that is where I thought I was in the ball park at $45 I guess not. maybe that was $45 just the board and CNC and not the finished price?

    what he is able to sell HDU at he claimed $75 who knows its not my shop so I don't know.

    I will set my price at $75-$100 Sq Ft retail on my side and would like to get him up to $55 or $65 wholesale.

    I don't advertise as a wholesaler. there is only 2 local sign shops and one Plastics Place I do this for, he is one of them. there are only 3 CNC's in my town including mine with about 140,000 people with 25 sign shops in the town.
     
  14. Bigdawg

    Bigdawg Just Me

    7,459
    133
    63
    Jun 8, 2005
    Sunny Florida
    The $42 I pay is primed, painted out the door. We pick it up and install it - sometimes without the sign ever coming back to the shop.
     
  15. imaSIGNr

    imaSIGNr Very Active Member

    2,581
    3
    0
    Jan 15, 2006
    I assume that is a one sided sign.
     
  16. kustomkoncepts

    kustomkoncepts Member

    364
    0
    0
    Nov 21, 2007
    I look at it this way a 4x8 of 1" PB is $212 so that is $6.65 sq ft Board cost. V carving only is pretty easy and fast will take about 20 - 30 mins cut time. and about $40 in primer and paint.

    so $80 material cost. I want $330 for the 48x22 7.33 Sq Ft @45= $330 a $250 profit so that sign if it trake all day 12-18 Hrs then yes I am not making anything, it made bills for that day but that is all.

    now he wants 3 of them so I will do them in conjunction and could get all three in say day 12-18 hrs I think. I figure that is pretty good.

    Big Dawg says finished $42 I don't see how I can get any more than $45.

    everything is slow and people are not paying for stuff and looking for in-expensive alternatives. in 6 years this is the first time I have done a HDU sing because they are so costly to me and the end comsumer.

    so let the rocks fly... I am going for $45 sq ft Wholesale on work for another shop. any one else care to share what price should be?

    Thanks all for the enlightenment.
     
  17. kustomkoncepts

    kustomkoncepts Member

    364
    0
    0
    Nov 21, 2007
    yes single sided square corners Boring sign...
     
  18. Kottwitz-Graphics

    Kottwitz-Graphics Very Active Member

    1,390
    78
    48
    Sep 25, 2006
    Ridgely, MD
    Funny this topic comes up...

    I'm going out on a limb here, and I'm gong to say that $45 per sq ft finished is a tad low, but not that bad...

    I got a price sheet just this morning from a wholesale shop on this board (and I know many people use them) that are pricing thier finished 1" 15 lb HDU signs at $50 per sq ft. Primed is $35, and raw is $30.

    You guys that are selling them for $75 to $80 (and up) that is a retail price. Also you must look at your location. I know at least for Doug (iSign). What are you paying for a sheet of material (considering it all has to be shipped in)?

    I can get a sheet of 1" 15 lb signfoam is $237.50 (which is $7.43 per sq. ft cost). Primer and paint is not all that expensive.
     
  19. kustomkoncepts

    kustomkoncepts Member

    364
    0
    0
    Nov 21, 2007
    Thanks Kottwitz

    I thank you for the prices. I am just a smaller shop and not a threat to any other CNC wholesale shop around.

    But I will adopt this 50,35,30 price guide.

    there is no reason to be a penny less for a similar type of work. yes there are variables of V carve vs 3D routing but as a wholesale provider you have to take a little risk. Shops I work with want a simple exact price so they can figure out what they have to sell it at. I can't just make up a price everytime on every job based of time it took.

    thanks again
     
  20. iSign

    iSign Major Contributor

    13,027
    31
    48
    Nov 29, 2003
    Kahului, Maui
    I tend to get carried away, so I don't mean to sound like the authority... even if I like ALL CAPS, or bold type, or lots of exclamation points!!!

    I do have to pay more to get goods out here, & I usually use 1-1/2" material, and I honestly don't remember what I've paid for the HDU jobs I subbed out (but I secretly always thought it was too low) In the end, you gotta do what you gotta do... but if I were you, I would set policies of rounding up sizes to the nearest foot, because if he wants to sell 22" signs, you can't always use every inch of scrap, so that should factor in somehow
     
Loading...

Share This Page

 


Loading...