• I want to thank all the members that have upgraded your accounts. I truly appreciate your support of the site monetarily. Supporting the site keeps this site up and running as a lot of work daily goes on behind the scenes. Click to Support Signs101 ...

Healthcare

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
I tried to help you and the others that wanted to talk about this topic by creating the thread. (and the OP of slipped disk regain his thread) When I first saw your message about you reporting me (which wasn't really funny.. it's April 4th) I was going to just leave it alone and write you off as a lost cause...

I posted the PM when I saw you comment in the very thread I created for you... the one you felt the need to report me on for harassment. Really?? Only after that two-faced side of you was brought to light did you come back and say "April Fools, I was kidding chill out it's all good". You tried to smooth it over and were expecting me to delete that post in a timely matter? Come on now...
 

equippaint

Active Member
Given enough time, the Supreme Creamsicle Genius WILL bankrupt us. He wouldn't know how to run an ecomony any better than he did at business. What kind of moron inherits $425 million and goes bankrupt four or five times, gets blacklisted by every bank in America and stiffs countless suppliers, vendors, etc. in the process?

In case you haven't noticed, every credible economic forecast has us with 2% growth for 2019, we've already seen a RECORD rise in the deficit as well as a TRILLION+ annual bump in the national debt are projected. Fiscal restraint isn't exactly his forte. Chronic abuse of the bankruptcy courts is.

The so called leeches at the bottom of the pile aren't costing the Treasury billions and billions.
This has nothing to do with what I said. My statement was that people are watching and hoping that the economy fails so they can chime in with an I told you so. Its a true statement and independent of anything else. In relation to this conversation, its no different than people wanting obamacare to fail so they can say i told you so. Its all about winning and even worse, smearing the opposition’s face in a pile of sh*t to seal the deal.
 

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
Let's not derail my thread, this is a healthcare thread...not a Trump bashing "moron" calling thread. I've taught you how to create a thread so please.. YOU start that one.
 

rossmosh

New Member
America's healthcare system ranks poorly among developed countries. Steal the good stuff from the countries doing better than us and institute that system. It really isn't that complicated.

The problem isn't America's size or diversity in both ethnicity and lifestyle. It's that roughly 40% of Americans have bought into a lie that the government is worthless and corporations are the best.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
I have nothing to add, anymore.

Don't know how MY name comes up, all the time..... and im not even posting here.. Some here were/are bellyaching for me to stop certain things. I don't agree with their views, but I've stopped doing what was suggested. Yet, still I get harrassed, just the same. Whether we talk healthcare, signs, business, what color is the sky..... there is one member in particular who just keeps yelling for me to stop. Sounds like all those naysayers going after Trump, regardless of how well he's doing. I am in no way, comparing myself to Trump, but for crying out loud toad...... try getting off your high horse and either discussing things civilly, or just shut your fake crap. They've allowed you to curse, read people the riot act and still you go off half-cocked after people. Aren't you the one who complained about me PMing you ?? And I was trying to bury the hatchet.

You talk about all these other wonderful forums you belong to where life is just honky-dory. Why not stay with those people and just visit here once in a while ??.
 

TimToad

Active Member
I can't believe you would post a private message between us and let this much time go by since i replied back and told you it was a belated April Fool's joke. What a dick.
Let's not derail my thread, this is a healthcare thread...not a Trump bashing "moron" calling thread. I've taught you how to create a thread so please.. YOU start that one.

You started a thread in Entertainment, humor, ETC. And now want it to be a serious discussion with strict rules of engagement and limits on what everyone but you can post?

Yeah, that works. Double standard much?
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Some people are just make believe stoopid, while others are just that. If anyone cannot fathom this is all about a tongue-in-cheek thread, than may the Lord help them. Sure, it can be discussed and debated, but It's kinda like getting a taste of your own medicine.
 

TimToad

Active Member
This has nothing to do with what I said. My statement was that people are watching and hoping that the economy fails so they can chime in with an I told you so. Its a true statement and independent of anything else. In relation to this conversation, its no different than people wanting obamacare to fail so they can say i told you so. Its all about winning and even worse, smearing the opposition’s face in a pile of sh*t to seal the deal.

I certainly don't want the ACA to fail and throw 25 million into uncertainty again. It may not be perfect and it may not solve our issues fully but the rates of early detection because of its diagnostic testing features are all up, people can't be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions and for many on it, its the only way to get any access to doctors outside of the ER. We all know that the ER is THE most expensive way to deliver healthcare.

Drumpf has to be included in the discussion as the buck stops at his desk. Considering he promised the best, cheapest healthcare within 100 days of being elected, We're over 800 days in and yours and my healthcare is every bit as expensive, less than comprehensive and showing no signs of improving anytime soon.
 

Bobby H

Arial Sucks.
I'm pretty disgusted about this topic since two friends of mine have died of heart attacks recently. One died a couple weeks ago and the other died just last night (after suffering a stroke a month earlier). Both friends were in their 50's.

The health care system in the United States is an over-priced, immoral mess. It really isn't a health care system as much as it is an asset class for investors. This is essentially why most of the problems are left un-fixed. Too many people are making a fortune off the situation, and not just in the United States either. People from across the globe are in on this orgy of greed. Lobbyists put a whole lot of pressure on our "lawmakers" to keep the current system in place and keep that gravy train rolling. There are so many sacred cows being protected in this screwed up, greedy arrangement.

We do not have a "free market" health care system. It is a form of socialized medicine; it's just the world's most absurd form of socialized medicine. Free market businesses will advertise prices up front and compete directly against other businesses in the same field on the ratio of price versus quality of good and services delivered. Virtually nothing in our health care system operates like that. Hell, the same hospital or clinic may charge wildly different prices to two different patients for the same exact procedure. That's even if the same patients have the same exact kind of insurance coverage, income, etc. America's "free market" health care "businesses" get to take America's taxpayers for a ride AND they get to price gouge the patients. It's the world's most lucrative arrangement of double dipping.

Not that I would actually want this to happen, but if we eliminated all forms of government funding to America's health care system, making hospitals, clinics, drug companies and others in the health care food chain survive based only on what was in a patient's wallet, you would see a bunch of hospitals close immediately. You would see a lot of "for sale" signs on all those mansions built around the hospitals too. That's what would happen with a purely free market health care system.

I always have to laugh at the "rationing" comment people often make when defending America's current "free market" health care system. "Oh, you don't want rationing! That's what you get with socialized medicine!" News flash: we already have health care rationing in this country. It's called the "I can't afford to go to a ****ing doctor" and "I can't afford the ****king treatment" form of rationing.

Tens of millions of Americans don't see a doctor at all. They're just praying to never get ill, playing health care roulette. Medical bills are the #1 cause of personal bankruptcy. And thanks to newer laws passed by our elected officials, personal bankruptcy won't eliminate all forms of medical debt. Others who do want to see a doctor cannot do so because there is a big shortage of traditional, general practice family doctors. There's more money to be made being a specialist. And when someone finishes medical school with $250,000 or more in college debt there is pressure to go for those big bucks. So preventive care in America is a joke. There's more money to be made in reacting to disaster by delivering expensive treatments. Hospitals make more money from treating heart disease, cancer and diabetes rather than preventing those conditions.

One other thing I find very annoying is this strange belief the high prices and other problems only started after "Obamacare" was passed. What a crock! I often hear this misinformation from people working for large companies, like the huge Goodyear plant on the west side of my town. Those people don't have a clue about the struggles of small businesses like sign companies. Back in 1993 when I first started working at this sign company I had pretty good quality health insurance. Good coverage and a $500 deductible. Over the years the coverage quality declined. It seemed like we were changing plans or switching insurance companies every freaking year just to be able to have at least some coverage. By 2005 my deductible was $12000 and coverage wasn't for squat. At this point I was simply expecting the company to stop offering health insurance coverage completely. Our company's coverage through the ACA isn't all that great; certainly nothing like the coverage I had back in the early 1990's. But at least we're in a larger pool of other small businesses. My deductible is a more manageable $3000. If the courts overturn the ACA law, I'll probably just lose health insurance coverage completely. There's no way I can afford to buy health insurance coverage on an individual policy.

I'm not sure how to solve the health care problem in the US. 100% disclosure and transparency of pricing would be a good start though. Competing across state lines would also help.

If the current situation is allowed to run its course it will lead to really serious problems for this nation. It has already long been one of the biggest contributors to our national debt. For one thing, high health care prices are one factor contributing to a new "baby bust." The birth rates of America born women have dropped below the replacement rate level and are trending downward farther. If that takes hold over the long term (like it has in Japan) it will lead to a financial disaster of demographic/generational imbalance. Way too many old, retired people and far too few young workers contributing to the tax base to sustain the system. We're putting all the pieces in place to make that happen here.
 
Last edited:

TimToad

Active Member
I'm pretty disgusted about this topic since two friends of mine have died of heart attacks recently. One died a couple weeks ago and the other died just last night (after suffering a stroke a month earlier). Both friends were in their 50's.

The health care system in the United States is an over-priced, immoral mess. It really isn't a health care system as much as it is an asset class for investors. This is essentially why most of the problems are left un-fixed. Too many people are making a fortune off the situation, and not just in the United States either. People from across the globe are in on this orgy of greed. Lobbyists put a whole lot of pressure on our "lawmakers" to keep the current system in place and keep that gravy train rolling. There are so many sacred cows being protected in this screwed up, greedy arrangement.

We do not have a "free market" health care system. It is a form of socialized medicine; it just the world's most absurd form of socialized medicine. Free market businesses will advertise prices up front and compete directly against other businesses in the same field on the ratio of price versus quality of good and services delivered. Virtually nothing in our health care system operates like that. Hell, the same hospital or clinic may charge wildly different prices to two different patients for the same exact procedure. That's even if the same patients have the same exact kind of insurance coverage, income, etc. America's "free market" health care "businesses" get to take America's taxpayers for a ride AND they get to price gouge the patients. It's the world's most lucrative arrangement of double dipping.

Not that I would actually want this to happen, but if we eliminated all forms of government funding to America's health care system, making hospitals, clinics, drug companies and others in the health care food chain survive based only on what was in a patient's wallet, you would see a bunch of hospitals close immediately. You would see a lot of "for sale" signs on all those mansions built around the hospitals too. That's what would happen with a purely free market health care system.

I always have to laugh at the "rationing" comment people often make when defending America's current "free market" health care system. "Oh, you don't want rationing! That's what you get with socialized medicine!" News flash: we already have health care rationing in this country. It's called the "I can't afford to go to a ****ing doctor" and "I can't afford the ****king treatment" form of rationing.

Tens of millions of Americans don't see a doctor at all. They're just praying to never get ill, playing health care roulette. Medical bills are the #1 cause of personal bankruptcy. And thanks to newer laws passed by our elected officials, personal bankruptcy won't eliminate all forms of medical debt. Others who do want to see a doctor cannot do so because there is a big shortage of traditional, general practice family doctors. There's more money to be made being a specialist. And when someone finishes medical school with $250,000 or more in college debt there is pressure to go for those big bucks. So preventive care in America is a joke. There's more money to be made in reacting to disaster by delivering expensive treatments. Hospitals make more money from treating heart disease, cancer and diabetes rather than preventing those conditions.

One other thing I find very annoying is this strange belief the high prices and other problems only started after "Obamacare" was passed. What a crock! I often hear this misinformation from people working for large companies, like the huge Goodyear plant on the west side of my town. Those people don't have a clue about the struggles of small businesses like sign companies. Back in 1993 when I first started working at this sign company I had pretty good quality health insurance. Good coverage and a $500 deductible. Over the years the coverage quality declined. It seemed like we were changing plans or switching insurance companies every freaking year just to be able to have at least some coverage. By 2005 my deductible was $12000 and coverage wasn't for squat. At this point I was simply expecting the company to stop offering health insurance coverage completely. Our company's coverage through the ACA isn't all that great; certainly nothing like the coverage I had back in the early 1990's. But at least we're in a larger pool of other small businesses. My deductible is a more manageable $3000. If the courts overturn the ACA law, I'll probably just lose health insurance coverage completely. There's no way I can afford to buy health insurance coverage on an individual policy.

I'm not sure how to solve the health care problem in the US. 100% disclosure and transparency of pricing would be a good start though. Competing across state lines would also help.

If the current situation is allowed to run its course it will lead to really serious problems for this nation. It has already long been one of the biggest contributors to our national debt. For one thing, high health care prices are one factor contributing to a new "baby bust." The birth rates of America born women have dropped below the replacement rate level and are trending downward farther. If that takes hold over the long term (like it has in Japan) it will lead to a financial disaster of demographic/generational imbalance. Way too many old, retired people and far too few young workers contributing to the tax base to sustain the system. We're putting all the pieces in place to make that happen here.

I sympathize with you over losing your friends and wish you all comfort in such a tough circumstance. Thank you for taking the time to both express very valid points, but also a chance to vent your frustration.
 

Johnny Best

Active Member
I had a stroke 2.5 years ago and if it was not for a great hospital and emergency room I would not be writing this.
Health insurance does not stop a stroke or a heart attack. People eat wrong, have family history of heart problems, life style, smoking, drinking and even stress. I am a witness to the people with these problems and I am back because of a good family structure and doctors to about 90% of what I use to be. Hospital stay, doctors have not cost me anything and I live in the US.
I went for yearts paying health insurance for myself and wife and four children, its just part of life is the way I looked at it.
Can they fix health care, probably, but doctors are not going to give up their boats, large homes and Mercedes just because we have a large part of the population who can't afford it.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Bly

equippaint

Active Member
doctors are not going to give up their boats, large homes and Mercedes just because we have a large part of the population who can't afford it.
Very true but general practitioners and even most specialists aren't making obscene money. The craziness is the on the corporate side of things. They push the doctors to code for higher paying procedures, order more testing and all but demand that they "encourage" their patients to use in-house diagnostics for mri's, catscans etc where they totally nail them. As far as I know, they can not legally make the doctors do it but there is definitely a ton of pressure on them.
 

TimToad

Active Member
They didn't it call the "Unaffordable Health Control Act" for nothing.

"They" didn't call it that ever. Nobody ever did.

For those who are now able to get routine blood work, lab tests, colonoscopies, mammograms, etc. on an annual basis with little out of pocket cost, the results and improvements in early detection have been astounding. Some day, our addiction to the idea of "rugged individualism" will be replaced with some knowledge about how to lower costs by creating a huge pool of 327 million members instead of millions and millions of individual policies with profit driven insurers.

The 80/20 rule was supposed to rein in excessive price gouging but very little enforcement of that critical feature of the ACA is happening. Have you heard of anyone getting a check back from their insurer because they weren't spending at least 80% of premiums collected on providing actual healthcare? No, I haven't either.

The trade off on insurers being able to set rates, collect government dollars in subsidies, not having to negotiate drug prices and cover all pre-existing conditions was that they would limit their profit margins to 20% or below.

After almost 10 years of them thumbing their noses at the 80/20 rule, I say we've given them more than enough of a chance to make things reasonable, stop gouging people and provide better care. Medicare for all, cradle to grave.
 

bowtievega

Premium Subscriber
My family ditched our health insurance a couple years ago. Premiums were way too high as well as the deductibles. On top of that you still pay 20% after your deductible. Joined a Christian healthcare ministry. We pay just over $500 a month for a family of six. Can submit any treatment amount over $300 with no limit on coverage. Entire amount is covered after the initial $300. We are cash pay for everything and if we negotiate enough of a discount they will even wave the initial $300. Since we are cash pay we can go anywhere we want of treatment. Saving thousands every year in premiums and have way better coverage
 

TimToad

Active Member
My family ditched our health insurance a couple years ago. Premiums were way too high as well as the deductibles. On top of that you still pay 20% after your deductible. Joined a Christian healthcare ministry. We pay just over $500 a month for a family of six. Can submit any treatment amount over $300 with no limit on coverage. Entire amount is covered after the initial $300. We are cash pay for everything and if we negotiate enough of a discount they will even wave the initial $300. Since we are cash pay we can go anywhere we want of treatment. Saving thousands every year in premiums and have way better coverage

I would be very careful relying on any business model that isn't forced to adhere to and comply with the consumer protection laws regarding insurance. It appears that these types of cost sharing programs may have value for very healthy people but the lifetime and per illness limits would scare me off if any of my family had a chronic or severe illness.

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2018/aug/health-care-sharing-ministries
 

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
Legal definition of harassment: Harassment is governed by state laws, which vary by state, but is generally defined as a course of conduct which annoys, threatens, intimidates, alarms, or puts a person in fear of their safety. .


Hey Toad, if you truly are feeling harassed by me, as you've stated TWICE in private messaging ... why do you keep rating my posts and interacting with me? One would think if you were threaten by me, intimidated or in fear of your safety..that you would stop rating my messages and communicating with me.


Toad:
Blow it out your ***, you message me one more time, I WILL report you for harassment.

OR IS THIS ANOTHER LATE APRIL FOOLS JOKE???
 

AF

New Member
I would be very careful relying on any business model that isn't forced to adhere to and comply with the consumer protection laws regarding insurance. It appears that these types of cost sharing programs may have value for very healthy people but the lifetime and per illness limits would scare me off if any of my family had a chronic or severe illness.

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2018/aug/health-care-sharing-ministries

I would trust God fearing Christians over communists / marxists / socialists any day of the week.

People who have the moral obligation to do the right thing as compared to being forced to through regulation. When forced by regulation, then the minimum is what you get if that.
 

AF

New Member
My family ditched our health insurance a couple years ago. Premiums were way too high as well as the deductibles. On top of that you still pay 20% after your deductible. Joined a Christian healthcare ministry. We pay just over $500 a month for a family of six. Can submit any treatment amount over $300 with no limit on coverage. Entire amount is covered after the initial $300. We are cash pay for everything and if we negotiate enough of a discount they will even wave the initial $300. Since we are cash pay we can go anywhere we want of treatment. Saving thousands every year in premiums and have way better coverage

We looked into this but we live in California so the laws are different. Have you had a major incident that had bills in the tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars? Wife feels these programs work well for the healthy but not so much if the excrement hits the rotary pneumatic circulation inducer.
 
Last edited:
Top