Help choosing computer??

[lbpalm]

...


300 ppi images as input? Unless you're printing at 1200 or more dpi there's no reason whatsoever to deal with input at more than 150 ppi. There's lots of rationalizations but little else. A minimum printer to input resolution ratio of 4:1 is what you should be doing. Assuming that you're printing at 720dpi or less. A reasonable assumption since printing at anything much higher than that is, for the most part, a waste of ink.

I should have qualified my remark; 300 dpi for photographic content.
For vector-based content 300 dpi not necessary, although I still like 300 for printing 3d pre-viz in large format.

Agreed on 720; 1440 seems to overwhelm the media in most cases.
Printing photographic on paper might be an exception.

I will cogitate on your 4:1 ratio.

 

[lbpalm]

Honestly, if you want to be able to take something into the field, you are going to need two computers. A field computer doesn't need nearly the power that your desktop needs and you will spend about the same amount of money on one really good laptop or a cheap laptop and decent desktop and you will be able to do the same work but not have to be tied to the desk when you are printing.


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Agreed.
My portable is a 16 GB Macbook Pro running Bootcamp (lol).
Although I am not a Mac guy I appreciate Apple's build quality,
The machine is 4 years old now and holding up well.

- I have noticed that HP has come out with some really nice, quality built portable machines lately.

BTW, this is *not* a recommendation for Bootcamp which in some cases does not support peripheral connectivity.
- Flexi come to mind as one example of an app that does not play nice with Bootcamp. (or vis-versa )

Also, if between locations on a regular basis, running a remote environment like Teamviewer can be a powerful enhancement.
- We use a Bomgar remote server.
With it I have access to every machine on my network from anywhere in the world via a secure, encrypted connection (4096 RSA).

 

[kheebl]

I had my computer built at micro center and the thing is a beast. I think I paid around $1800, I was going to build it myself but they offered a nice warranty if they built it so I went that way, and if anything fails I just bring it back to them and they will swap failed part for a brand new one.

 

[lbpalm]

I should have qualified my remark; 300 dpi for photographic content.
For vector-based content 300 dpi not necessary, although I still like 300 for printing 3d pre-viz in large format.

Agreed on 720; 1440 seems to overwhelm the media in most cases.
Printing photographic on paper might be an exception.

I will cogitate on your 4:1 ratio.

Thought about it & took a look at some print settings here.
Here is what I found:

1440 x 720 + fine & fog 3 + 300 dpi file
- no over saturation no ink flooding on vinyl media:


1440 x 1440 + fine & fog 3 + 300 dpi file
- no over saturation no ink flooding on paper media:


So, 1440x1440 or 1440x730 (media selection) seems ok on the 1624 here.

This is with VJ1624_FLX_Orajet3551G_ULTRA_720 profiles for preset output & media.
((yes, I did overdrive the print head settings))

Actual print size is about 51 x 25 inch:


More settings:

 

[Pauly]

I want to make this clear. For RIP PCs, We need Xeon processors. Not Core i7 ect.
They are far more efficient, and are built for processing data as they have hyper threading. They also work so much better and last a lot longer under load.

 

[lbpalm]

I want to make this clear. For RIP PCs, We need Xeon processors. Not Core i7 ect.
They are far more efficient, and are built for processing data as they have hyper threading. They also work so much better and last a lot longer under load.

i7 is hyper-thread capable.
(mindful that HT performance is also app-dependent.)
For us, the cost-performance ratio is too far skewed toward cost with Xeon.
- 2 strong i7 machines can yield better productivity than a single Xeon computer. (Not-with-standing dual CPU Xeons machines). - ((forget about quad))
As you may know, performance falls off as any machine loads up.
((see Amdahl's Law)): http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/Amdahls-law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl's_law

With the above thoughts in mind, around 12 years ago, when the i7 architecture began coming into its own, we switched over.

I should mention that the i7's around here, unlike our lightbulbs, do not burn out.

Hyperthereading:
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/hpc/Hyper-Threading-may-be-Killing-your-Parallel-Performance-578/

 

[lbpalm]

i7 is hyper-thread capable.
(mindful that HT performance is also app-dependent.)
For us, the cost-performance ratio is too far skewed toward cost with Xeon.
- 2 strong i7 machines can yield better productivity than a single Xeon computer. (Not-with-standing comparing an i7 machine to a dual CPU Xeons machine). - ((forget about quad))
As you may know, performance falls off as any machine loads up.

With the above comments in mind, around 12 years ago, when the i7 architecture began coming into its own, we switched over.

I should mention that the i7's around here, unlike our lightbulbs, do not burn out.

Hyperthereading:
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/hpc/Hyper-Threading-may-be-Killing-your-Parallel-Performance-578/

 

[WildWestDesigns]

BTW, this is *not* a recommendation for Bootcamp which in some cases does not support peripheral connectivity.
- Flexi come to mind as one example of an app that does not play nice with Bootcamp. (or vis-versa )

I've never been a fan of dual booting.

While even using VMs there can be some issues when in coherence mode (aka Unity aka Seamless (all depending on the software of choice)) with some software and it may only apply to one VM software and not another.

I much prefer to run 4 OSs (about the most I'll run at one time) all at the same time then have to restart to switch to another OS. If you use Xeon processors and ECC RAM, it's amazing all they all appear to run at native speed, if not even better then when installed on bare metal even with high end consumer components.

Also, if between locations on a regular basis, running a remote environment like Teamviewer can be a powerful enhancement.
- We use a Bomgar remote server.

I'm more of a SSH fan myself. Of course, there is always trade offs on that as well.

 

[CSOCSO]

- What is your budget?

A few considerations:
- RAM: 64 GB recommended
- CPU: 3.5 t0 4.5 GHz (a few flavors are available but suggested considering Intel only)
- GPU: Nvidia 1070 or 1080
- SSD: For OS Samsung 1TB (850 or 860 evo or Pro series, or M.2 architecture if you want to splurge)
- 2nd SSD or SATA6 HDD for Data HDD will save a few bucks & can be had in 2 - 4 TB for not a lot of $$$
-MOB: ASUS (a few flavors are available minimum recommendation is the x99 series chipset) (also consider a mob that has at least 2 wired connections + wireless: you would ideally have one connection for WAN/LAN and the other for the printer's direct-wired private IP (do not route printer through a hub or switch + wireless spare))
- PS : 800 watt or more; quality vendor like Thermaltake

General rule: Look for components that have 3-5 year warranties.
Another consideration: A dual monitor setup can make your workday much more enjoyable and productive.
Suggested component vendors: Newegg or Amazon.
- Newegg is nice because once registered there you can setup some wish lists for various builds to compare prices, specs, etc.

NOTE ON CASE: Spec your case very carefully. WC dims., GPU length, height of ram banks and many other factors come in to play when selecting the system's case.
***review the dimensional specifications for all components very carefully***

Other considerations:
- Fractal designs has some very nice Mid-Tower ATX cases.
- Consider Corsair water cooling - 80 series is good.
(WC will allow a mild overclock; maybe 10%-12% but do not go more than 12% for a production machine.)
ASUS mobos now come with an auto-overclock that makes this a point & shoot proposition, but again it would not be recommended that you manually overclock for a production machine.

You can build a medium spec machine as loosely described about for about $2,600 - $3,000 (exclusive of monitors).
Higher spec would be a Xeon machine with 128 GB, but this route would gain you a 15% - 20% performance boost for 2x the cost.
Add about $1,000-$1,500 if you buy (instead of build) from a quality spec vendor like Puget Sound Computers.
Try to stay away from big box stores and generic manufacturers where you will find many compromises in specifications and OS (BB's make their money by cheapening specifications for the un-informed consumer).

Laptops of similar spec will be much more money & much less flexible in terms of the actual specifications availability.

If you will be initially subbing out design work, consider holding off on the Wacom until you actually need it since specs do change and you will get more bang for the buck by waiting to purchase when actually needed.

((BTW, unless you are a seasoned designer and very familiar with setting up one of these things, Wacom can be a useless investment.))

Surface Pro? not sure it will be compatible with all of your Print Shop and other peripheral requirements - research carefully before going this route.
Ditto Windows 10 which has much BSh*t packed into it which has nothing to do with getting productivity out of your machine.
Windows 7 Professional (64 bit only) may seem old school, but it is rock solid & 100% compatible.
Besides, changing out the OS is not a big issue down the road.

Also consider having a cloud repository like Drop Box.
- When something goes wrong you will be relieved to have secured your client projects and other important files in any event.

Good luck.

Am I missing something? 1070 or 1080gpu? 64gb ram? Are you printing a pixar movie in real time??!?!?!
"medium spec machine" for 3000? What are you talking about?
Are you building a pc for triple monitor 4k gaming or a computer to rip for the printer? No need for any beefy GPu if you are not rendering in 3D. A $200 gpu would be more than enough for photoshop or illustrator or any rip software. my custom build pc for ripping cost my like $600. The one I am designing on cost me less than $1500. All you need is a good cpu, ram, hard drive and a decent gpu. Never had a problem handling 2-3-4gb photoshop files.

 

[CSOCSO]

Btw whoever is serious about designing you don't even need 2 hard drives in your pc. Get 1TB SSD ( hell.. even 500gb is enough) and get a NAS! ( yeah this will cost you a lot more than just going with another hard drive.

32gb ram is MORE than enough for any raster/vector designing and ripping
And liquid cooling? Jesus

 

[d fleming]

Up until recent I have been a big fan of dell. I will never buy from them again. I have 6 machines from them in office. Newest is 7 months old. Toasted itself doing an update from dell. Their tech wiped my drive when told specifically not to. I could have retrieved all data from it first had she not done that. They sent a new drive. Problem was not the drive. Long story short I had my tech fix it and make sure not to install any of their nag screen and dell garbage. Machine is fine now. Dell techs are morons with no regard for your time or business. Stay away from them. My 2 cents.

 

[coastguy111]

Again I am very thankful to everyone's input. It sounds like I may have to go the laptop route or wait a few months for updated better convertible/2in1 hybrid style computers.
I am starting this business a bit unconventional than most. While I have the equipment to handle the production aspects, the rest of everything I do will be mobile.

I will have a small portable office that I will be able to load in and outta my truck as I go to potential customers place of business and their vehicle(s).

So having a printer, computer, camera, measuring tools, files of paperwork etc.

So having a computer that I will be using for many different things.... presentations, design, sales/marketing etc..

My budget really isn't as important as getting what I need now and will continue to function as I need.

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[visual800]

Dell techs are morons with no regard for your time or business. Stay away from them. My 2 cents.

Its not just Dell, its just about everyone that claims to be a tech these days,

 

[coastguy111]

Any thoughts on the Lenovo ThinkPad series?

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[WildWestDesigns]

Any thoughts on the Lenovo ThinkPad series?

Which series are you looking at?

I've been seriously thinking the P series myself, but I wouldn't do anything less then a Xeon processor (especially since I'm a huge VM user). My main office rig is a ThinkStation with just 32GB and it's more then enough, can't imagine one of those laptops maxed out at 64GB.

 

[Baz]

I have a laptop that is my main pc at the shop (email and invoicing) but can also act as a design station when i am at home.
I have a 17" Asus - Republic of Gamers.
Dual hard drives, i7 CPU, Geforce GTX 970 GPU and 16 gigs of ram.
That is more than enough to design full wraps in Photoshop.

Maybe Xeon processors are more optimal for number crunching but my shop pc also has an i7 CPU and it crunches numbers
fast enough for me. Rips are always done in 25 - 45 seconds

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Maybe Xeon processors are more optimal for number crunching but my shop pc also has an i7 CPU and it crunches numbers
fast enough for me. Rips are always done in 25 - 45 seconds

The biggest thing that you have to realize, at least in my situation, none of my business software (and by extension Windows, I don't use Mac either on bare metal or in VM) has direct access to hardware. So it can't fully utilize the hardware as it is. The Xeon processor with ECC RAM helps to overcome that and it's just more stable. Some BSOD that people get, won't get them with ECC RAM. Not in every instance mind you, but in some they won't.

The last Win 7 laptop that I had was a Toshiba Quismio (sp?) from when Win 7 first game out. It did alright, it really did and it had less specs then what you listen. About the only thing it had on yours is it had an 18" screen.

 

[coastguy111]

Which series are you looking at?

I've been seriously thinking the P series myself, but I wouldn't do anything less then a Xeon processor (especially since I'm a huge VM user). My main office rig is a ThinkStation with just 32GB and it's more then enough, can't imagine one of those laptops maxed out at 64GB.

That's a good question... when it comes to the technical aspects of computers I am not as educated as I probably should be.
Its looking as if I would be wise to go with one that comes with a minimum of 8gb..probably 16gb. As far as the rest goes I'm still trying to understand. Definitely will be using large size software programs and often more then one at a time.



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[coastguy111]

I just read that the Microsoft surface pro 5 is set to launch this early spring. Also a developers edition that I'm not sure of exactly?

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[lbpalm]

Am I missing something? 1070 or 1080gpu? 64gb ram? Are you printing a pixar movie in real time??!?!?!
"medium spec machine" for 3000? What are you talking about?
Are you building a pc for triple monitor 4k gaming or a computer to rip for the printer? No need for any beefy GPu if you are not rendering in 3D. A $200 gpu would be more than enough for photoshop or illustrator or any rip software. my custom build pc for ripping cost my like $600. The one I am designing on cost me less than $1500. All you need is a good cpu, ram, hard drive and a decent gpu. Never had a problem handling 2-3-4gb photoshop files.

LOL- I am sure Pixar uses Xeon with Quadro.