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Help decipher this test print please

Discussion in 'Roland' started by Cooper Digital, Nov 27, 2020.

  1. Cooper Digital

    Cooper Digital New Member

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    Nov 23, 2020
    Henderson, Tennessee
    F702E336-8E93-4E5B-BB05-3FD56C47F584.jpeg SC-545ex. This is a machine that I purchased that needed heads. This is my first wide format printer so go easy on me lol.

    I installed the heads, and had trouble getting the ink to pull. Thought I had that sorted out..but this is the current test print. The streaks across are I’m assuming the half of the cyan head that’s not printing? The black I think may still be a ink seal issue that is evading me. The yellow looks like it’s not the small test lines like the others? Not sure. What do you guys see here and what would you do next? Ribbon cables maybe?

    it has new caps and dampers.
     
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  2. Jim Hancock

    Jim Hancock Active Member

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    Nov 11, 2008
    Delray Beach, Florida
    You appear to have multiple issues. I would start with new ribbon cables, at least on the Cyan head, but all would be good. The streaking lines you are seeing are almost always a damaged head ribbon.
    One possible cause of the missing nozzles is a misalignment of the caps and the heads. this can be solved by performing the Initialize the Limit procedure to insure the heads and caps are aligned, then a power clean. Please post your results...
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 28, 2020
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  3. Cooper Digital

    Cooper Digital New Member

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    Nov 23, 2020
    Henderson, Tennessee
    Sorry for the late reply, had to get through thanksgiving and had a few problems pop up that I didn’t know about. The main drain line had come apart inside and was stopped up. Fixed that. Changed all of the ribbon cables, and did the limit initialize. At the end of the sequence, the tool carriage wasn’t releasing from the head carriage. The head wasn’t locking, so I took off the locking mechanism and took it apart, cleaned it etc and put it back on and got that working. Did the limit initialize again and it finished fine. No more streaks! But...very little cyan print now. 376B176B-1F4E-4E49-8183-BF284C60E701.jpeg
     
  4. Jim Hancock

    Jim Hancock Active Member

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    OK, first issue solved.

    Check that the caps are sitting level by pushing them up and down. They should move freely. I presume you followed the Initialize the limit procedure closely. One thing I suggest is to look at the cap-head alignment after the test print to insure this is still centered, as sometimes you have to tweak the position. If it's off, adjust until it centers on it's own after a print.

    If you are still missing lots of nozzles, I would suggest rechecking the dampers. When you replaced them, did you replace the O-ring on the ink line on top of the dampers? I would also suggest snipping off 1/16 inch off the ink line so the O-ring is now in an uncompressed area of the ink line for a better seal. While each damper is off, gently wiggle the manifold post to make sure there are no cracked ones. When putting the dampers back on the manifold, first moisten the manifold post and the O-ring in the bottom of the damper with cleaning fluid. This will make it easier to push the damper down and also make a better seal.
     
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  5. Cooper Digital

    Cooper Digital New Member

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    Nov 23, 2020
    Henderson, Tennessee
    So I removed all dampers 1 at a time, snipped each end and cleaned the ends and o rings on the top side. Then cleaned and checked the print and nipple on the bottom side. A couple of the lower o rings weren’t straight so I fixed that, wet them with cleaner and reinstalled them. Also I looked at the cap station and to me it looks right, but I took a shot of it with it parked.

    Interesting that after a power clean, both sides of cyan are firing...just not clear. Air maybe? And also on the light magenta...pretty sure I swapped the dampers on that head...you can see the switch in the test print. That, at least, locks it down to the single ink input line/damper right? Black still isn’t firing...I’d guess the cap isn’t sealing on that one? I have an extra one if I can find it...I’ll swap it tomorrow and see. Is there any certain tests that I can do to run down the air leaks that I’m having? You can see the cyan come in a little more as the test prints went on, like there’s air in the line. Still no idea why the left side of the magenta isn’t firing. 1274B42A-C2DD-4A95-A6C2-29F8275CB71D.jpeg image.jpg
     
  6. Jim Hancock

    Jim Hancock Active Member

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    Do you have a syringe? Next step is going to be checking for air leaks...
     
  7. Cooper Digital

    Cooper Digital New Member

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    Nov 23, 2020
    Henderson, Tennessee
    Yes sir. I have a few that I e been using.
     
  8. Jim Hancock

    Jim Hancock Active Member

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    Are all the dampers full of ink? If so do the following...
    Remove the cover that covers the pumps. Go into service mode and go to I/S menu - I/S control - Cap. Attach the syringe to the first cap line and pull very gently. Watch the ink coming into the syringe and look for bubbles in the ink. You may get some initially as you may be filling that head with ink. Open the caps, move the head and look at the ink in the cap. There shouldn't be any bubbles. Regardless of what you see, pull the ink out of the cap, park and lock the heads, close the caps (it will take 3 button presses) and pull ink again. Open the caps, move the heads and observe the ink in the caps. Note if you see bubbles or not. Empty the cap, park and lock the heads, raise the caps and go to the next cap and repeat the above process. Continue until all heads have been primed this way. Remember to pull gently!!! Do a medium cleaning and a test print and post the results.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 1, 2020
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  9. Cooper Digital

    Cooper Digital New Member

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    Nov 23, 2020
    Henderson, Tennessee
    Followed what you said and there were some bubbles at first. I pulled all of them fine...but black has no resistance and pulls no ink. I replaced that cap, still the same. Not sure what’s going on there. I can pull ink from the dampers on both lines. After the prime and cleaning, the print is much better, but the left side of magenta isn’t firing. I swapped the dampers on that head to see if the print switched....but it stayed the same. E2142C0F-3CA0-470D-9234-1A09849D8FF2.jpeg
     
  10. Jim Hancock

    Jim Hancock Active Member

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    I will get back to you later today on this. There are a number of steps you need to take to determine what else is wrong. I am on the road and have limited access today.
     
  11. Jim Hancock

    Jim Hancock Active Member

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    Sorry for the delay, busy fixing printers last week. OK, let's tackle the magenta and black heads. Remember, the cardinal rule in troubleshooting is to change only one thing at a time and test the results.

    First, we will determine if this is a signal issue, as we have don't have a single nozzle on the black head and 1/2 of the magenta. I want you to do a cable swap. See the attached pic. It's a generic example, so ignore the head color configuration. Just make sure the cables go the same same side of each head, i.e., left to left, right to right. Power down and unplug the printer. You will swap the cables on the magenta and cyan heads first, power up and then do a test print. Now power down and do the same thing with the black and yellow heads. I suspect the black head still won't fire, as based on your previous post you couldn't pull ink with the syringe. If still no black, remove the black dampers, and gently wiggle the manifold posts to make sure there are no cracked ones. It is very important to lift the dampers straight up when removing them to insure you don't crack the manifold posts. If so, the manifold will need to be replaced. You can take one from an old head. Before installing it on the head, thoroughly clean it, flushing the manifold with acetone until clear. Also, when installing the heads, did you position them in the brown adapter as shown in the attached pic? Are the dampers and caps Roland OEM or aftermarket? If aftermarket, who is the supplier? What brand of ink are you using?


    data cable swap.jpg Roland DX4 printhead-adapter positionong.JPG
    Please post the results.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
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  12. Jim Hancock

    Jim Hancock Active Member

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    Nov 11, 2008
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    Any luck?
     
  13. Cooper Digital

    Cooper Digital New Member

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    Nov 23, 2020
    Henderson, Tennessee
    So sorry brother! I didn’t notice the new message. I’ve been swamped with a sign job. I will do this this evening. Thanks so much for your help! I sincerely appreciate it.
     
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  14. Cooper Digital

    Cooper Digital New Member

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    Nov 23, 2020
    Henderson, Tennessee
    Did the cable swap on cyan and magenta....and on yellow and black. Looks the same just in different locations to me.
    3754ED0A-0994-4C49-8E03-8060DF77E157.jpeg

    Going to check dampers etc now.
     
  15. Cooper Digital

    Cooper Digital New Member

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    Nov 23, 2020
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    Checking the dampers on black and the ink had pulled back away from the dampers. Used a syringe to pull it back through the dampers. Then we figured I’d take the black head out and look at the manifold etc....the ink “footprint” on the head isn’t centered. Is this enough to cause what is happening?
    9CF492CD-D321-4938-8E56-51F2A12920D9.jpeg
     
  16. Jim Hancock

    Jim Hancock Active Member

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    It does need to be centered. If the ink footprint is touching the silver frame around the head, you will have an air leak. Hard to tell as the pic is a bit blurry. Be sure to use the previous pic on mounting the head on the adapter. I would also gently clean the bottom of the head while it is out. The ink pulling back in the black dampers concern me. I would check the O-rings on the ink line at the top of the dampers. Are they new, or did you clean the old ones? When you pulled ink through the dampers, did you notice if there were air bubbles coming through where the ink enters the dampers? Was it pulled back on one or both black dampers?
     
  17. Cooper Digital

    Cooper Digital New Member

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    Nov 23, 2020
    Henderson, Tennessee
    The dampers are new but I don’t know which brand, they came with the printer uninstalled. The ink was pulled back on both lines. One a little more than the other. I didn’t notice any air bubbles but it’s hard to tell before it gets coated with black. The cap is an off brand but again I’m not sure what brand. I am going to order some oem ones. The O rings on the damper, I cleaned them and snipped the ends of the lines earlier, but I will check them again. I also checked the nozzles on the top of the head, they seem fine. And the seal between the head and that nozzle piece seems to be seated and looks fine.
    How would I go about aligning a single cap top? Or do you even do that at all? I will also pull the magenta head and look at that footprint and take a picture of it while Im at it.
     
  18. Jim Hancock

    Jim Hancock Active Member

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    I'm betting your black issue is the off brand cap. Any defects or unevenness in the top edge of the cap seal will give you an air leak. Solventinkjet carries Roland OEM caps. Roland Cap Top | Solventinkjet.com I learned the frustrating way about the inconsistency of aftermarket caps and only use OEM, especially on DX4 heads. You can also order O-rings from them. 2mm O-ring (Pack of 5) | Solventinkjet.com Small dampers - Roland Small Damper & O-Ring | Solventinkjet.com Large dampers - Roland Large Ink Damper & O-Ring | Solventinkjet.com
    These guys are techs as well as dealers and I have had consistently good results with their parts.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2020
  19. Cooper Digital

    Cooper Digital New Member

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    Nov 23, 2020
    Henderson, Tennessee
    Awesome. I will order both of those. I actually just noticed what you meant about I talking the manifold. I did not align the head to the lower left corner. On any of them actually. That’s the first that I noticed that. I just remounted the black one..it did move some. Also did the same on the magenta head. I cleaned that head before taking a picture ‍♂️. But it looks like it could’ve possibly been on the silver part at the bottom. Going to reassemble this and just see what happens. On the magenta....is that a common problem to get one side of the head firing great and nothing from the other? Could the manifold adjustment cause that?
     
  20. Jim Hancock

    Jim Hancock Active Member

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    Nov 11, 2008
    Delray Beach, Florida
    The magenta issue could be either the damper on that side or a cracked manifold or a bad head. Let's eliminate everything else before going for the head though. But, a head slapper thing - make sure both magenta cartridges have ink in them. I troubleshot that issue twice. The ribbon swap indicates it's an ink issue, not an electronic issue.
     
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