Help in Outfitting New Graphics Department

[Fred Weiss]

I agree with that Fred...but are there tradeshow/exhibit companies that don't already do their own printing? All the ones I know are pretty complete operations, everything from graphics, to printing to fabrication and show set up. He's saying there a tradeshow company that has been outsourcing all their "sign" work?

Yup, a trade show exhibit company that has been outsourcing for whatever amount of time they've been in business. He did say "fast growing", so I gather they're fairly new. He still doesn't seem to get what our membership requirements are there for.

 

[PRS Bryan]

Boy, I am glad I did not mention that I started the in-house graphics shop at my current place of employment.

The company I work for was a sign company, but they outsourced or purchased all of their printed graphics. The only piece of equipment they had prior to hiring me was a graphtec plotter.

The reason we got into large format printing was because the existing print shops were were using were not providing the quality and turn-around we wanted. So by starting a print shop we were looking to cut our existing suppliers out, not for the cost savings, but the flexibility and control.

Now that the shop exists as a full service sign shop doing internal graphics 75% of the time and external graphics the remainder. It seems that when I first started I did not qualify for the forum, but now I do.

In fact we followed the oft given advice, "farm out digital graphics until you have a customer base that will support a wide format printer." Which is also what the OP was doing.

I am not trying to flame anyone, but I am having a difficult time understanding why the OP's request was out of line. If he bought the equipment, would his questions then be appropriate?

When ever some one new enters the trade, they are going to take away a competitors business. I can't see why it matters if the new business is already a consumer of graphics or not.

 

[Fred Weiss]

Boy, I am glad I did not mention that I started the in-house graphics shop at my current place of employment.

The company I work for was a sign company, but they outsourced or purchased all of their printed graphics. The only piece of equipment they had prior to hiring me was a graphtec plotter.

The reason we got into large format printing was because the existing print shops were were using were not providing the quality and turn-around we wanted. So by starting a print shop we were looking to cut our existing suppliers out, not for the cost savings, but the flexibility and control.

Now that the shop exists as a full service sign shop doing internal graphics 75% of the time and external graphics the remainder. It seems that when I first started I did not qualify for the forum, but now I do.

In fact we followed the oft given advice, "farm out digital graphics until you have a customer base that will support a wide format printer." Which is also what the OP was doing.

I am not trying to flame anyone, but I am having a difficult time understanding why the OP's request was out of line. If he bought the equipment, would his questions then be appropriate?

When ever some one new enters the trade, they are going to take away a competitors business. I can't see why it matters if the new business is already a consumer of graphics or not.

I guess it can be confusing but one can boil it down to this:

If you, or the business you are employed by, want to, if you used to, or if you currently make and sell signs, printing or any other kind of graphic product to paying customers then you are qualified to join Signs 101. Also included would be teachers, students, brokers, government shops, manufacturers and suppliers.

In your case, farming out print while doing vinyl cutting in house for paying customers, even though only in part, qualified you for membership.

Those whom we decline are businesses such as real estate brokers, car dealers, etc. seeking to bypass professional sales channels. In honesty, there are some registrations we accept where the applicant is a skilled sign crafter employed be an organization that is so large it has a full time sign shop, thus there is no loss of business to the professional sign community. We do this on a case by case basis. We've approved registrations, for example, for more than one employee of Disney.

 

[PRS Bryan]

Thank you for the explanation.

It dose seem a pretty fine line, but that is why it is up to your discretion.

I think what I found jarring was how quickly everyone had it "figured out".

I know some things are verboten around here, I was not aware that was on the list.

 

[GAC05]

Wow, and I thought the season 7 premier of The Walking Dead was savage.
I wonder what Gino named his bat.



wayne k
guam usa

 

[brycesteiner]

I completely misread the initial post request.

I am currently in the position of helping a growing company implement an in-house graphics operation. They have always outsourced their printing and are now wanting to do it all under one roof.

I took it as he was expanding a current graphic center to include the new equipment, not a "growing" non-graphics company that wants to bring all signage/printing in house.
When seeing the explanation given to PRS Bryan by Fred it made a lot more sense the responses given. Thanks for opening my mind to see the light.

 

[Fred Weiss]

Hello everyone!

I am currently in the position of helping a growing company implement an in-house graphics operation. They have always outsourced their printing and are now wanting to do it all under one roof.

Personally, I've been involved in most aspects of graphics / printing for the past couple of decades (design, prepress, variable data, marketing, running smaller roll machines, etc.), and have a decent grasp on the business as a whole, but have never had to be the person to choose equipment of this type to set up a shop. I'd also like to get some recommendations of vendors for this equipment, preferably in the Midwest area. I'm hoping this is a good place to ask for some assistance!

That said, here's where we are at the moment. It'll be a graphic shop mainly for its own internal client, so we would mostly be printing our own work. Not a huge, busy shop bringing in tons of work, but we'll be printing daily. We'd want to print on rigid materials (acrylic, foamcore, PVC, etc.), as well as occasional objects (USB drives, cases, etc.), as well as roll materials. We'd need to contour cut vinyl, and would also like to contour cut the rigid substrates at times (e.g. dimensional lettering, standees). So, having said all this, we're needing an equipment setup like this: printer(s) that can do white ink, print on rigid and roll, has a decent height margin for objects, can cut to shape on roll/thin materials as well as rigid substrates.

An example configuration I've come up with for the main hardware is:

[FONT=&amp]Roland VersaUV LEJ-640FT UV Flatbed Printer (for rigid and objects)
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Roland TrueVIS VG (54") Printer / Cutter with Media Take-Up Unit (for roll and contour vinyl cutting)
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Flatbed Contour Cutter / Router (not sure where to even start here)

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]You can get an idea of budget from what I've listed above. We'd also have to get all of the ancillary equipment as well (material stands, workstation, rip machines, etc.), but that can come later with a specific vendor.

As far as the vendor goes, I'd also need someone who can offer all of the installation and training necessary for this equipment, and support for getting them running well, help with a color matching system, etc. etc. We're not in a position to just have the stuff dumped on us and wished the best of luck.

So... given this information, what do you experienced, educated sign industry folks think? What kind of equipment do you recommend for this endeavor, and what's the best place we can get it?

Thanks so much for your help!

-Joe
[/FONT]

Thank you for the explanation.

It dose seem a pretty fine line, but that is why it is up to your discretion.

I think what I found jarring was how quickly everyone had it "figured out".

I know some things are verboten around here, I was not aware that was on the list.

They "figured it out" from the bold, red copy with no mention of what the fast growing business does in the opening post shown above nor in any post that followed.

 

[Suz]

Dear Jochwat,
Gino = Genius
:Big Laugh

Thanks, Gino, for your immeasurable assistance and kind words!

Now let's hear from the non-Neanderthals.

 

[Gino]

Nwhere was it mentioned that this fast growing company was going to make end-products for end-users. It was to be for their own internal use. So, if they were indeed making tradeshow displays...... how many could they possibly make for themselves to prove all of these high cost purchashes profitable ?? As mentioned throughout this thread, he was never clear if he was selling his displays or signs or whatever..... to end-users, but wanted to do all of his arguing behind the curtain. I will admit to being the first to say anything, but not once did he indicate anything, until it as too late. My question would be..... was he embarrassed or was it the truth ?? If so, why did he handle himself in such a manner...... either way ??

Besides, his questions were way beyond that of a novice. He had no clue as to what he was doing or asking, other than some sniffing round a place like this. Perhaps he had some experience from 1980, but it didn't appear to stick with him.

I was surprised to see him banned, but as always the rules are the rules.

 

[TrustMoore_TN]

I agree with that Fred...but are there tradeshow/exhibit companies that don't already do their own printing? All the ones I know are pretty complete operations, everything from graphics, to printing to fabrication and show set up. He's saying there a tradeshow company that has been outsourcing all their "sign" work?

I was very surprised to learn that some rather large exhibit companies farm out their graphics work. A few years ago I interviewed with a large exhibit house that was going to start up a graphics department. They had been farming out work locally for years. Having been in the sign industry for 25 years and coming to work to head up a graphics division of an exhibit company I work for now, I can see why the OP's company would want to bring it in house. Especially if they fabricate custom exhibits. 90% of the time, graphics are the last thing that our clients supply to us and we are always under the gun to get them produced. So unless we had an outside vendor on retainer to drop everything they are doing and produce our graphics, there's no way outsourcing it would work for us. Also, with custom fabrication dimensions can change because of a design revision once the exhibit has gone into production and we have to be able to make those changes on the fly with the graphics.

 

[Marlene]

to be honest the guy had an attitude and was only here long enough to get what he wanted. he never would have contributed so no loss that he is gone

 

[rossmosh]

The post screamed of someone that worked in graphics/printing at different shops but never actually looked into what's involved in running the department. Throwing a list of expensive toys out and saying he wants to print on everything under the sun showed a certain naivety that rubbed people the wrong way. If he said he worked for a trade show company, I'm sure the response would have been better, but still, if you're going to head up a department and recommend spending well over $200k on equipment, you better know your stuff.

Most people would look at what they primarily print on at the moment and buy the machine that covers that requirement. Based on my experience in the trade show world (which I haven't been involved in for about 6 years) a large format printer, vinyl cutter, and laminator should do about 90% of what you need. All told, you could equip the department for under $50 relatively comfortably.

 

[Gino]

Who joins a forum... and on their first day hits a 'Dislike' button for something they know nothing about ??

dabob does. He's never posted anything, never contributed, never requested anything, doesn't know Adam from Eve, but has a strong opinion on something he knows nothing about.

It gets even more odd as this thread lives on..........................​

 

[Fred Weiss]

Who joins a forum... and on their first day hits a 'Dislike' button for something they know nothing about ??

dabob does. He's never posted anything, never contributed, never requested anything, doesn't know Adam from Eve, but has a strong opinion on something he knows nothing about.

It gets even more odd as this thread lives on..........................​

 

[dabob]

Delete my post . . . that fast

Youz guys should rename your forum Signs r for us - now go away!

 

[Gino]

:ROFLMAO: you do realize if you use that line of thinking, in it's original usage it was actually meant as a positive vow towards something, which when used as in today's thinking where it is now used as a denial, you actually are complimenting me ?? Ahem, was that your goal ??

​

 

[Gino]

Youz guys should rename your forum Signs r for us - now go away!

No, not really, just listen to your own advice.

 

[Fred Weiss]

Closing thread.