Help me Decide an Upgrade: Roland VF2-640 or Epson 80600 Printer only?

[OzarkDigital]

We've been running an XR-640 (printer/cutter) for 7 years. Solid printer. Runs about 4-5 hours a day, but often we're waiting to print until after the cutting is done!
Avg. $2.5K/year in preventative maintenance/heads/caps, etc.
Our Roland dealer and servicing engineer are in their late 60's and we are worried about them retiring/getting ill and we losing their tech support (we're quite remote and not near any major metro area.)

We're busy enough to upgrade to a dedicated printer plus a new stand alone cutter but we need to DOUBLE our print speed and get a MUCH wider gamut!

My buddies RAVE about their Epson 80600 for the gamut with inks of: C.M.Y.K.Lm.Lc.Lk.Or.R

But we know the Roland/Versaworks extremely well,

We're keen on the new Roland VF2-640, which offers inks as: C.M.Y.K.Lm.Lc.Lk.Or.Grn

My dilemma:
--- The Roland VF2-640 is quite new. Are the bugs all worked out?
--- What about all the horror rumors we hear about the VG/VF Series TruVis printers???
--- The Epson 80600 is at least 7 years old (engineered 7 years ago and went on sale 5 years ago.)
--- The Epson 80600 will likely be replaced with a new model announced at the October PrintingUnited show in Vegas 2022.
--- Should we wait until October to see what Epson and Roland show at PrintingUnited?
--- The Epson is approx $5K more than the Roland. Is it worth it that difference?
--- We'll be getting a Summa plotter/cutter so the workflow between printer & cutter is a big unknown for us (print/cut)

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and insights!

 

[BVG]

Can't speak in a direct comparison because I haven't been hands on with the VF2-640, but after 2 years we're still blown away with our S80600.

We upgraded from a VS-640 and the Epson is miles better. The print quality is mind blowing and the speed is more than enough to run 2-3 full rolls a day comfortably. I haven't heard any rumors of a new Epson (feel free to share if you have haha) but it wouldn't be a shock if something new was coming based on their previous release cadence.

 

[OzarkDigital]

Can't speak in a direct comparison because I haven't been hands on with the VF2-640, but after 2 years we're still blown away with our S80600.

We upgraded from a VS-640 and the Epson is miles better. The print quality is mind blowing and the speed is more than enough to run 2-3 full rolls a day comfortably. I haven't heard any rumors of a new Epson (feel free to share if you have haha) but it wouldn't be a shock if something new was coming based on their previous release cadence.

Thanks, BVG and warmest regards to you Down Under in Sydney! TY So Much!

 

[BVG]

No problem!

Forgot to mention, don't be afraid of changing to a separate print/cut workflow. Once you get the hang of it you'll wonder how you ever managed without it.

There's something very satisfying about watching the printer run full rolls whilst the cutters are humming away simultaneously.

 

[OzarkDigital]

No problem!

Forgot to mention, don't be afraid of changing to a separate print/cut workflow. Once you get the hang of it you'll wonder how you ever managed without it.

There's something very satisfying about watching the printer run full rolls whilst the cutters are humming away simultaneously.

Yes indeed, BVG ... we have wasted so many hundreds of hours of production time waiting for the Roland to finish cutting jobs when we really needed to be printing!
So now we're convinced to install a separate cutter ... print and cut simultaneously makes so much more sense ... we were mesmerized by the Roland marketing spin on the "all in one" machine ... but we simply outgrew it! Thanks again Sydney Friends from the dead center of the USA.

 

[balstestrat]

Just know if you plan on using Versaworks with the Roland, you will not have a quick workflow for the cutting.
On the other hand Epson comes with Onyx(I think) and you can install the Summa on that as well (like selecting print&cut in Versaworks).

 

[Dale D]

Im running a VF2-640 because the building roof leaked and my landlords ins replaced my old Roland XR. This one with the new printheads is much nicer. I went from 4 color to (M,C,Y,Or,Lk,Gr,K) Didnt go with white due to my demand/ the issues with white.
I also have no issue with Versaworks and workflows. Im cutting and printing at the same time. I use Flexi to send to Versa works only for printing due to the ICC profiles, but use Flexi with Summa Cutter control running in background for my cutting. I run 2 plotters, a Summa T75 and a Summa T160 while I print with no problem.

The only issue I had with my Roland was at 1 point I had banding in my blacks that appeared from nowhere. After 5 trips (New dampers, new print heads, alignment, etc) with my Roland service guy, we found it to be an issue with using the Roland ICC profile. By accident I changed the profile and the problem went away.

 

[jfiscus]

DEFINITELY separate your workflow into two machines.
Personally, if you don't need the white ink, I would suggest going with an S60600 over the S80600. It is super fast and dependable. We love the colors from ours (pay to have yours profiled correctly when it is installed) and can hit anything we want to with it.
We also love the barcode system that Onyx/Graphtec uses to cut our files.
We purchased an FC9000-140 and after printing the roll we laminate it and load the roll onto the plotter. It automatically reads all the barcodes and will cut the entire roll unattended. It used to require someone to set each cut and send each cut when we were using Mimaki plotters, so we essentially gained an employee by adding this plotter. We are so happy with the time saved by this plotter that we are having our second one dropped off today!

 

[Sean@CedarHouse]

I run a Roland VS-640 with a SUMMA. If I have a quick print cut job with no lam I run it straight on the Roland. If I have to laminate then I run it on the SUMMA. Using Custom Cut I can run a print cut job all night while I'm sleeping and in the morning the job is done.

I love print cut as an option. I hear (though I don't have one) that the VG printers have been ironed out and the issues the first year of production are no longer issues. But again.. I don't have first hand on that.

 

[OzarkDigital]

DEFINITELY separate your workflow into two machines.
Personally, if you don't need the white ink, I would suggest going with an S60600 over the S80600. It is super fast and dependable. We love the colors from ours (pay to have yours profiled correctly when it is installed) and can hit anything we want to with it.
We also love the barcode system that Onyx/Graphtec uses to cut our files.
We purchased an FC9000-140 and after printing the roll we laminate it and load the roll onto the plotter. It automatically reads all the barcodes and will cut the entire roll unattended. It used to require someone to set each cut and send each cut when we were using Mimaki plotters, so we essentially gained an employee by adding this plotter. We are so happy with the time saved by this plotter that we are having our second one dropped off today!

Wow, JFiscus, you really ARE the Map Wraster ... and prolly' the Wrap Master on many occasions too! Thanks SO MUCH for the great insights!

 

[OzarkDigital]

Just got an email from a Calif colleague who has the Epson 60600 with a Graphtec and LOVES it. Like us, he outgrew his Roland integrated Print/Cut printer and has doubled his capacity and throughput. FYI!

 

[DaveD]

Just got an email from a Calif colleague who has the Epson 60600 with a Graphtec and LOVES it. Like us, he outgrew his Roland integrated Print/Cut printer and has doubled his capacity and throughput. FYI!

So we just got our new S60600L installed yesterday and the first run (for money) is a large vehicle wrap with all grey tones. Mind you I had to adjust the curves and set up a custom profile, but the quality and speed is amazing. You walk away for 5 minutes and the first panel is already done! We have two HP latex machines and one of them is about to be retired, hence the new printer. I was tired of fighting color consistency so I decided to go back to solvent after 12 years of running latex machines. As I said this is only day one of it making money but I think I'll be a happy customer. Having a Graphtec or Summa cutter separate of the printer is a must if you have any volume going through your shop.

 

[Boudica]

We have both the Roland XR and the Epson s80600. Love both, but if we were to add another printer, we'd get another Epson. It's sneaky fast, and the color is beautiful. I use the summa for cutting with the Epson

edit to say: maintenance on the Epson is so easy. I manually clean the Roland(s) weekly. We have an xj too... Still kicking!
The Epson tells me when to clean it.
Only downside to Epson is tech stuff. You need a tech to fix things. But we have/had a service contract. Going on three years, and we only needed it for some issues with the take- up not functioning right.

 

[OzarkDigital]

We have both the Roland XR and the Epson s80600. Love both, but if we were to add another printer, we'd get another Epson. It's sneaky fast, and the color is beautiful. I use the summa for cutting with the Epson

edit to say: maintenance on the Epson is so easy. I manually clean the Roland(s) weekly. We have an xj too... Still kicking!
The Epson tells me when to clean it.
Only downside to Epson is tech stuff. You need a tech to fix things. But we have/had a service contract. Going on three years, and we only needed it for some issues with the take- up not functioning right.

Boudica: Did you guys every consider the 4color s60600? In other words, is having the 8-9 color 80600 that much better in colorimetry and gamut to make the difference between the 60 and the 80 a substantial gap? Just looking for insight into your guy's logic of the 80600 purchase vs. buying the 60600? TYSM!

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

If you don't need to hit 021C, you could probably get away with the 60600. We have a client that needs it, so 80600 was the go.

 

[ProColorGraphics]

I have had my S80 for ~5 years now and love it.

 

[Boudica]

Boudica: Did you guys every consider the 4color s60600? In other words, is having the 8-9 color 80600 that much better in colorimetry and gamut to make the difference between the 60 and the 80 a substantial gap? Just looking for insight into your guy's logic of the 80600 purchase vs. buying the 60600? TYSM!

Snap. Sorry I didn't reply earlier. I was waiting for a chance to ask the boss - makes those decisions. I never got the chance, we've been really busy. That said, I don't think he would have looked at anything lower than 6 colors. All of our printers are at least six colors. If memory serves, I believe it was the white and silver ink options that clinched that call. Outside of playing around with it, we only used the silver twice. And rarely used the white. But we love how vibrant the prints are, and it does dry faster than the Roland.

 

[OzarkDigital]

Snap. Sorry I didn't reply earlier. I was waiting for a chance to ask the boss - makes those decisions. I never got the chance, we've been really busy. That said, I don't think he would have looked at anything lower than 6 colors. All of our printers are at least six colors. If memory serves, I believe it was the white and silver ink options that clinched that call. Outside of playing around with it, we only used the silver twice. And rarely used the white. But we love how vibrant the prints are, and it does dry faster than the Roland.

Thanks, Val, for the insights! The wider gamut of the 80600 is where we're strongly leaning. TYSM!

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

Here are my gamut plots showing in blue mesh using the CcMmYKk inkset and green mesh showing how much additional gamut the OR inks provide on the S80600 measured with an i1Pro2 spectro while we were building some profiles:

 

[GT Designs]

I have an s60600 coming from multiple rolands, man the new rolands just dont compete at all with an epson. The new Truvis print heads are absolute trash had the tech out 8-10 times on my VG2 540 ended up selling it for pennies on the dollar. However the new epsons are a work horse beautiful prints, fast drying time and they just run and work. Highly recommend a epson!