Here is a great tip for you guys

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

There's not enough tinfoil for all you weirdos.

I hate to tell y'all this, but the government isn't tracking your every move (unless you're on some kind of watch list) and could probably care less what Joe Schmo sign installer is doing on a Tuesday afternoon. Amazon, on the other hand, is probably tracking everything you do, but only so they can sell you more stuff.

 

[bannertime]

There's not enough tinfoil for all you weirdos.

It's more so that the data is being stored by government and corporations, and that they don't really care about "you" until "you" do something. Or specifically corporations that are contracted to the government. Even more specific, license plate tracking equipment in public places and police cars. Source Link

This is just part of it. The government doesn't have to do any of the actual tracking (except for what the NSA was doing with Prism) all the information is already being collected by private businesses. Amazon, Facebook, Google, electronics manufactures, banks, traffic control companies, genealogy services etc all collect data at the individual level. Mostly used for less than nefarious needs, but it's still being used and can later be used for the government.

It's to the point that even turning your phone off, even taking the battery out, can still provide Google enough data to pinpoint where you were during the down time.

Of course, this is all reliant on one thing, that the government goes bad and starts using this data against us. If you don't think that's possible, I'd invite you to look into China's Social Credit System and also every time that reporters have gone missing or committed suicide when they exposed corruption by their governments.

 

[ams]

Is being tracked really a bad thing?

 

[equippaint]

Is being tracked really a bad thing?

Id say in theory no but the issue I have is companies, namely insurance, using every possible data set they can collect and potentially using it against you. Similar to them having higher rates for people with different email providers. You can not shake this profile that they build of you and theres no telling how this will play out later in life. Dynamic pricing from retailers is another potential issue. Amazon has been accused of this as well.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

It's more so that the data is being stored by government and corporations, and that they don't really care about "you" until "you" do something. Or specifically corporations that are contracted to the government. Even more specific, license plate tracking equipment in public places and police cars. Source Link

This is just part of it. The government doesn't have to do any of the actual tracking (except for what the NSA was doing with Prism) all the information is already being collected by private businesses. Amazon, Facebook, Google, electronics manufactures, banks, traffic control companies, genealogy services etc all collect data at the individual level. Mostly used for less than nefarious needs, but it's still being used and can later be used for the government.

It's to the point that even turning your phone off, even taking the battery out, can still provide Google enough data to pinpoint where you were during the down time.

Of course, this is all reliant on one thing, that the government goes bad and starts using this data against us. If you don't think that's possible, I'd invite you to look into China's Social Credit System and also every time that reporters have gone missing or committed suicide when they exposed corruption by their governments.

The government IS bad, my dude. If you don't think the US government is corrupt, I've got a bridge to sell you.

This was kind of my point though, I just wasn't clear enough. EVERYTHING we do is tracked 100% of the time in this day and age (if you own any kind of smart device at all, or even some "dumb" devices). Most of that information is just numbers in the ether. You're already being tracked, being paranoid about it is a waste of time. Unless you're gonna go Ted Kaczynski and hide in the woods off the grid, you're already got got!

 

[ams]

But if you missing, they will know where to find you.

 

[bannertime]

The government IS bad, my dude. If you don't think the US government is corrupt, I've got a bridge to sell you.

This was kind of my point though, I just wasn't clear enough. EVERYTHING we do is tracked 100% of the time in this day and age (if you own any kind of smart device at all, or even some "dumb" devices). Most of that information is just numbers in the ether. You're already being tracked, being paranoid about it is a waste of time. Unless you're gonna go Ted Kaczynski and hide in the woods off the grid, you're already got got!

There's being concerned and then there's being paranoid. A majority of those you probably consider to be wearing too much tin foil are likely just concerned and not completely informed on the situation. Calling them paranoid and spouting nonsense like "There's not enough tinfoil for all you weirdos" makes it appear as if it's stupid to even worry about our privacy. Instead, try making the points you just made before anything else. If they are truly paranoid, you'll soon know for sure. More than likely, they'll make little adjustments to improve their privacy.

The government in whole isn't bad. There are definitely corrupt politicians and other people in positions of power that have the needs of themselves over the people they represent or seek to govern. It's no reason to panic, as voting is currently the best defense. Gets too much worse, then yeah, other actions may be required.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

There's being concerned and then there's being paranoid. A majority of those you probably consider to be wearing too much tin foil are likely just concerned and not completely informed on the situation. Calling them paranoid and spouting nonsense like "There's not enough tinfoil for all you weirdos" makes it appear as if it's stupid to even worry about our privacy. Instead, try making the points you just made before anything else. If they are truly paranoid, you'll soon know for sure. More than likely, they'll make little adjustments to improve their privacy.

The government in whole isn't bad. There are definitely corrupt politicians and other people in positions of power that have the needs of themselves over the people they represent or seek to govern. It's no reason to panic, as voting is currently the best defense. Gets too much worse, then yeah, other actions may be required.

There's a difference between "I'm unaware of privacy issues" and "they're out to get me!" types of language and I think we're dealing with the latter here.

I disagree with you that government as a whole isn't bad. It's all bad, but as Winston Churchill said, "democracy is the worst form of government except for all those other forms..." The problem isn't the politicians, it's the system. It's just fundamentally broken. A functioning broken, but broken nonetheless.

 

[equippaint]

You guys are so fixated on the governement and totally ignore companies like google and facebook that know everything last thing about you. Righy down to pictures of where you live (street view). But lets not worry about that.... The big bad government is the problem

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Just because government or Facebook may not be doing bad things with the data TODAY...or TOMORROW...doesnt mean someone cant go in there and STEAL the data and use it against you.

 

[ams]

Without government there is no military, without military there is no USA.

 

[Asuma01]

Our government is running EXACTLY the way it was designed to. It's not the politicians. It's the monetary donor system used to put our government leaders in power. All corporate backed. Look up Manufacturing Consent. Look up Private Governments.

 

[equippaint]

Just because government or Facebook may not be doing bad things with the data TODAY...or TOMORROW...doesnt mean someone cant go in there and STEAL the data and use it against you.

No need to steal it when they willingly sell it. Credit card companies, banks etc do the same. Many you cant even opt out of. The info that facebook, amazon and google collect is far deeper than the banks though. Data is big business.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

One day we'll be looking back on this and thinking... that "crazy" Elon Musk was right... uncontrolled AI advancement is a dangerous thing.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

You guys are so fixated on the governement and totally ignore companies like google and facebook that know everything last thing about you. Righy down to pictures of where you live (street view). But lets not worry about that.... The big bad government is the problem

Can't it be both?

I already said private companies are a bigger problem than the government in a post above, so I don't disagree with you. We've dug a hole that we're never getting out of at this point. I don't know what the solution is, but I'm sure in another 75-100 years somebody will figure it out (assuming we haven't killed our entire species by that point).

 

[signman315]

This is a really interesting conversation if you ask me....here's my thoughts on it....

1. It's a given that there's no avoiding being tracked on multiple fronts. But I laugh at anybody tracking me, they are in for a very boring show lol.
2. I've built websites and worked with an SEO team on a few different instances....websites are filling your browsers with cookies and then remarketing ads based on your patterns, they/we know where you've been and can often guess where you are going. Phones/devices/gaming systems/Alexa/Siri/etc are always listening and catching key words that they will use to remarket the products you've mentioned via web ads, emails, and so on. This seems creepy and could certainly be used for some terrible things, but as of now it's meant as a convenience and service providing us with easy access to products we've expressed a level of interest in (either verbally or via internet search or otherwise). If you've searched for Nike shoes on Amazon expect ads popping up selling those same shoes.
3. It's naive to think that our data isn't being bought/sold and otherwised used and abused. I don't buy into the idea of people being against it "for the principle", I tend to think those are the folks with something to hide. With the understanding that such technology in the wrong hands is a problem, no different than any other powerful items, knives, guns, money, intelligence....anything useful can be used at the whim of the possessor for better or worse.
4. I've just started watching Westworld and it really presses the viewer on all of the issues discussed here....it's a complicated topic without any immediate, clear answers. (no Westworld spoilers please, I'm only part way through season 1 and only watching once in awhile). I'm very curious what marketing/advertising will look like moving forward.

Let's not forget that all systems are operated and enforced by living, breathing human beings. Everything is filtered through their personal judgments, desires, history, etc. Any system/government can succeed with the right people...and any system/government can fail with the wrong people and everything in between.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

But I laugh at anybody tracking me, they are in for a very boring show.

Sometime boring people have retirement accounts and bank accounts that are ripe for the taking.


The argument of "I have nothing to hide so what do I care what people have on me" is a little naive.

Take Equifax for example, did it bother people that they were collecting substantial information on everyone? Maybe not because they are a legit U.S. company that had a valid reason to collect it. But then the information was stolen. For $40, anyone can buy enough information about you to... clone your cellphone sim card and use that to pass the two-factor authentication setup on your brokerage account and immediately transfer out everything you own.

You may think your boring cause you not Walter White, but someone eyeing your little nest egg finds you more interesting then you think.


PS: Everyone here should have their credit report FROZEN and setup a security key lock on their cellphone SIM card with their carrier, along with requiring phone authorization on any international wire transfers on their brokerage/bank account. Small business owners are the PRIME and TOP target for online thieves, because we are (A) Not large enough to think about or hire someone in IT security, and (B) usually have enough money worth it to steal.

 

[signman315]

Sometime boring people have retirement accounts and bank accounts that are ripe for the taking.


The argument of "I have nothing to hide so what do I care what people have on me" is a little naive.

Take Equifax for example, did it bother people that they were collecting substantial information on everyone? Maybe not because they are a legit U.S. company that had a valid reason to collect it. But then the information was stolen. For $40, anyone can buy enough information about you to... clone your cellphone sim card and use that to pass the two-factor authentication setup on your brokerage account and immediately transfer out everything you own.

You may think your boring cause you not Walter White, but someone eyeing your little nest egg finds you more interesting then you think.


PS: Everyone here should have their credit report FROZEN and setup a security key lock on their cellphone SIM card with their carrier, along with requiring phone authorization on any international wire transfers on their brokerage/bank account. Small business owners are the PRIME and TOP target for online thieves, because we are (A) Not large enough to think about or hire someone in IT security, and (B) usually have enough money worth it to steal.

While I don't wholly disagree with what you are saying, and everybody should take the necessary precautions to protect themselves, the realistic possibility that an individual's nest egg will be successfully stolen is comparable to getting struck by lightning. If a criminal manages to pull that off there are natural protections in place that will prevent you from taking a wash and your financial institution is really the one at risk, they are obligated to reimburse you due to their security weakness. Their reputation as a secure financial institution is worth much more than reimbursing any individual's or even group of individual's little nest egg. So while it's possible to have one's nest egg whisked away to some dark corner of the earth, it's not nearly as big a risk as one might fear. As long as you aren't standing in a mud puddle with a metal pole you aren't going to be struck by lightning. Further the greater goal of a higher level hacker when they target an institution like Equifax is to break consumer confidence in that institution and disrupt our systems as a whole (by the state of our country, successfully I might add). The money they make by selling your data at $40 a pop is just the cherry on top, data which by the way is likely already available without the $40 anyway. So the people who hacked Equifax aren't after our relatively tiny nest eggs, it's not worth their effort or risk, there's a bigger end game for them. And the street level criminals buying data for $40 aren't capable or equipped to harvest your nest egg. They might buy $500 worth of roller derby gear, or a $1500 plane ticket to Madagascar (both of which happened to someone I know, which by the way the card info was stolen from a vendor at a craft fair and not through any internet data hacking and the bank covered it without much effort) but again the bank is going to take care of that and it wasn't even remotely close to a nest egg, so in essence that criminal took a $40 loss. So I mean no disrespect to anyone but the FEAR of having your data stolen is soooo much more valuable to these types of criminals than the data itself. And of course we should protect ourselves financially or otherwise but to let the fear inundate our society to the point where we are discussing it on a sign forum is precisely their goal. The American people are some of the most easy manipulated and gullible on the planet and the international criminal networks are aware of it and they are having a field day with us. And again I mean no disrespect to anyone and of course we should all be wary, but I think it's important that we steady our ship as a society and not fall victims to the scare tactics. A listing ship is easier to overturn. Alright I apologize for getting off track here, I think the OP showed us a useful tool that relates to our business as sign makers, though it might not be for everybody.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

While I don't wholly disagree with what you are saying, and everybody should take the necessary precautions to protect themselves, the realistic possibility that an individual's nest egg will be successfully stolen is comparable to getting struck by lightning. If a criminal manages to pull that off there are natural protections in place that will prevent you from taking a wash and your financial institution is really the one at risk, they are obligated to reimburse you due to their security weakness. Their reputation as a secure financial institution is worth much more than reimbursing any individual's or even group of individual's little nest egg. So while it's possible to have one's nest egg whisked away to some dark corner of the earth, it's not nearly as big a risk as one might fear. As long as you aren't standing in a mud puddle with a metal pole you aren't going to be struck by lightning. Further the greater goal of a higher level hacker when they target an institution like Equifax is to break consumer confidence in that institution and disrupt our systems as a whole (by the state of our country, successfully I might add). The money they make by selling your data at $40 a pop is just the cherry on top, data which by the way is likely already available without the $40 anyway. So the people who hacked Equifax aren't after our relatively tiny nest eggs, it's not worth their effort or risk, there's a bigger end game for them. And the street level criminals buying data for $40 aren't capable or equipped to harvest your nest egg. They might buy $500 worth of roller derby gear, or a $1500 plane ticket to Madagascar (both of which happened to someone I know, which by the way the card info was stolen from a vendor at a craft fair and not through any internet data hacking and the bank covered it without much effort) but again the bank is going to take care of that and it wasn't even remotely close to a nest egg, so in essence that criminal took a $40 loss. So I mean no disrespect to anyone but the FEAR of having your data stolen is soooo much more valuable to these types of criminals than the data itself. And of course we should protect ourselves financially or otherwise but to let the fear inundate our society to the point where we are discussing it on a sign forum is precisely their goal. The American people are some of the most easy manipulated and gullible on the planet and the international criminal networks are aware of it and they are having a field day with us. And again I mean no disrespect to anyone and of course we should all be wary, but I think it's important that we steady our ship as a society and not fall victims to the scare tactics. A listing ship is easier to overturn. Alright I apologize for getting off track here, I think the OP showed us a useful tool that relates to our business as sign makers, though it might not be for everybody.

$40 times 300 million is a big cherry. They can't immediately sell all 300 million profiles so it's not like everyone will have this happen all at once... this will go on for years. And not everyone hacker wants to break into a brokerage account, some want to commit the more mundane credit card theft. (Although, that info can be bought for $10, so no need to pony up for the Equifax info)

Commercial customers (us business owners) have far less legal consumer protection then regular "consumers". Your right, some firms will reimburse you granted you catch it in time... wait too long to check your accounts and it's gone for good. This isn't as rare as a lightning strike, if you poked around the areas they sell this info, you'll realize this is way more common then you think.

 

[signman315]

$40 times 300 million is a big cherry. They can't immediately sell all 300 million profiles so it's not like everyone will have this happen all at once... this will go on for years. And not everyone hacker wants to break into a brokerage account, some want to commit the more mundane credit card theft. (Although, that info can be bought for $10, so no need to pony up for the Equifax info)

Commercial customers (us business owners) have far less legal consumer protection then regular "consumers". Your right, some firms will reimburse you granted you catch it in time... wait too long to check your accounts and it's gone for good. This isn't as rare as a lightning strike, if you poked around the areas they sell this info, you'll realize this is way more common then you think.

By the time 300 million profiles are purchased on the dark market the information will be stale and useless as people constantly update profiles, passwords, accounts, etc and as security precautions advance to catch up with it. As already mentioned anybody that attempts mundane credit theft will take a loss after the bank freezes their attempts and reimburses the consumer, they are out the $10 they purchased the data for, I know this from experience, it was my father who had roller derby and tickets to Madagascar on his account. He was just mad he didn't get to go to Madagascar haha! These are the reasons the data can't be sold at a higher value in the first place, it's basically useless to the average criminal, otherwise it would demand a higher price. And of course the commercial consumers will catch it in time because they regularly have eyes on their account, and if not then they are standing in a muddle puddle in a lightning storm. The financial institutions prefer commercial consumers so their reputation is staked on protecting them, regardless of any laws or policies that may or may not be in place to protect us. I'm not saying it's impossible to be a target but with proper precautions it's a non-issue, as of today, times change quickly. Again no disrespect, and you make reasonable arguments, but there are so many more prevalent and problematic issues that we as business owners, creatives, and sign professionals should be spending our time on. They win every minute we spend in fear.