here we have another crappy payer

[Gino]

Had a guy.... many many years ago pull that. He still owed us over $4,000. He screwed lotsa vendors in the area after building his restaurant. Everyone sued the company. However, we had some personal information and sued him personally. He ended up going to jail and no one got paid, except us. Little by little we'd get bits and pieces until 4.5 years went by. We got paid in full and were allowed to get penalty costs, but said, we got what we wanted. He had to wear an ankle bracelet for quite sometime after he got out.

 

[damonCA21]

Apart from very rare occasions ( for people I have a long term relationship with ) I dont do any work until now until payment is made. Life is too short to waste time chasing people for payment, who have no intention of doing it until the last minute or when they are forced to. Any big company who have accounts departments and claim they can only work on credit are lying. They can all provide a cheque or better a bank transfer on the day the job is done.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

try getting any large company to do that... aint going to happen. I'm a very small company and even I say Net15. ACH is a PITA for reconciliation, if you got tons of payments going out, checks make it easy for record keeping.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

try getting any large company to do that... aint going to happen. I'm a very small company and even I say Net15. ACH is a PITA for reconciliation, if you got tons of payments going out, checks make it easy for record keeping.

I thought I was the only one who hated ACH payments.

 

[visual800]

this is only going to get worse with every corporate buyout. Nothing is mom and pop anymore, someone seems to always own someone else. ITS BS!

 

[Signarama Jockey]

this is only going to get worse with every corporate buyout. Nothing is mom and pop anymore, someone seems to always own someone else. ITS BS!

What do you mean?

 

[Notarealsignguy]

What do you mean?

means you will be forced to do work and wait to get paid because all of your smaller customers are either getting bought up or buried. One company alone has bought up at least 5 of our longstanding decent volume customers over the past few years. We just watch them fall one by one

 

[Signarama Jockey]

Well, those small business owners are probably getting paid really well. Good on them. I hope they enjoy their retirement - we should all be so lucky.

 

[Ray Miller]

Well, those small business owners are probably getting paid really well. Good on them. I hope they enjoy their retirement - we should all be so lucky.

Why do you think something like that? You seem to show a very skewed view of business and ethics these last few weeks. I don't respond here a lot, but I can't seem to follow any of your logic.

 

[Signarama Jockey]

Why do you think something like that? You seem to show a very skewed view of business and ethics these last few weeks. I don't respond here a lot, but I can't seem to follow any of your logic.

Well, if someone walks into your business and says that they want to buy it, you usually have to agree on a price, right? Unless there are some crazy circumstances, someone made them an offer and they accepted.

Lots of people sell their businesses. It usually is a sale to a motivated buyer and if it is a big corporation, that usually means they have deep pockets. I mean, it was a sale, right, they didn't get waterboarded until they signed the contract.

People who sell businesses walk away with a fat check and zero responsibility. That sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Well, those small business owners are probably getting paid really well. Good on them. I hope they enjoy their retirement - we should all be so lucky.

Smaller meaning regional and smaller footprint nationals, not Billy Bobs handyman service.
Most people run an unsellable small business, it's a job and the owner is the key employee, he leaves and the business dies. You usually don't get a big fat check. You get a little sum, hold a note for the rest and hope to God that they make the payments and don't sell off all of your assets before you are paid in full.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

It usually is a sale to a motivated buyer and if it is a big corporation, that usually means they have deep pockets. I mean, it was a sale, right, they didn't get waterboarded until they signed the contract.

People who sell businesses walk away with a fat check and zero responsibility. That sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

Except it doesn't work like that. For one, corporations hoard cash and leverage buyouts. It is usually some combo of stock, debt assumption and some cash AFAIK.
As far as zero responsibility, yeah right. They can claim you misrepresented your business, claim you contaminated your property, you could get dragged into a lawsuit from an old job, someone new could get hurt or killed by a machine and they say you did not train them or maintain it properly which caused it. It's funny you say this because this is the sole reason that I would choose to liquidate over sell when or if I retire.

 

[Signarama Jockey]

Smaller meaning regional and smaller footprint nationals, not Billy Bobs handyman service.
Most people run an unsellable small business, it's a job and the owner is the key employee, he leaves and the business dies. You usually don't get a big fat check. You get a little sum, hold a note for the rest and hope to God that they make the payments and don't sell off all of your assets before you are paid in full.

You can always turn them down. If you don't like the amount of money they are offering, or the terms, then just pass. In the situations we're talking about, the business owner accepted the offer and voluntarily sold their business.

Maybe you're right that some people don't get much for it, but I suppose that's because for whatever reason the business didn't have much value. I guess I am just looking on the bright side - I've seen a couple of businesses get sold and the former owners were VERY happy.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

You can always turn them down. If you don't like the amount of money they are offering, or the terms, then just pass. In the situations we're talking about, the business owner accepted the offer and voluntarily sold their business.

Maybe you're right that some people don't get much for it, but I suppose that's because for whatever reason the business didn't have much value. I guess I am just looking on the bright side - I've seen a couple of businesses get sold and the former owners were VERY happy.

You're missing the point. Nobody is going to offer to buy most small owner operated businesses. Could be 50 cents and it won't move. Sure, plenty get sold but by and large they do not. Really, banks won't even touch most of them and the owner doesn't want to be the bank. Why bother? You get some money above your asset value for goodwill but it's a big risk. You could just send all your stuff to the auction, put the cash in your pocket and go do what you're gonna do with no strings attached. When most people decide to call it quits, they want it now. They don't want to work for the guy who bought the place, they don't want to worry about chasing money, they don't want the endless how do I do this calls, they just want to move on. Bigger places are different because they typically have key employees and the owner can make a clean break.

 

[Signarama Jockey]

You're missing the point. Nobody is going to offer to buy most small owner operated businesses. Could be 50 cents and it won't move. Sure, plenty get sold but by and large they do not. Really, banks won't even touch most of them and the owner doesn't want to be the bank. Why bother? You get some money above your asset value for goodwill but it's a big risk. You could just send all your stuff to the auction, put the cash in your pocket and go do what you're gonna do with no strings attached. When most people decide to call it quits, they want it now. They don't want to work for the guy who bought the place, they don't want to worry about chasing money, they don't want the endless how do I do this calls, they just want to move on. Bigger places are different because they typically have key employees and the owner can make a clean break.

Well, we aren't talking about how hard it is for businesses to be bought though.

This all started from you saying

...because all of your smaller customers are either getting bought up or buried. One company alone has bought up at least 5 of our longstanding decent volume customers over the past few years.

Right here you are saying that at least 5 of your longstanding, decent volume customers were bought up. But now you're saying that it doesn't happen?

Look, the buyer and the seller must agree on the price. So, any legitimate sale of a business, a sign or a bag of peanuts is a transaction where both people voluntarily agree that the money is worth the thing, and that the thing is worth the item. I don't care if the people paying the money are paying more for a thing than it is worth, or if the people selling the thing take less money than it is worth - in the end, both parties go through with the deal because it makes sense to them. Hopefully, someone who has been working hard at their business has something of value, and if there is a sale of a business, I would expect that the former business owner gets enough money for them to be satisfied. That is a good thing. That means that they made a deal that makes sense to them. Just like when you sell a sign to someone, you and your customer benefit. I don't understand the sour grapes.

 

[Gino]

How many local hardware stores are competing with lowes, home depot and even some of the smaller chains ??
How many tire shops are competing with BJs, sam's club and others ??
How many franchises do you see selling pizzas and sandwiches ??

You're lucky if you even are given a chance to be bought out and not run over/put out of business.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Signjockey thinks no one should pay taxes... but enjoys using the road to his work and all the benefits the government gives him. He thinks small business owners cash in big when they sell their little sign shop. Signjockey has all the answers but doesn't do it himself.

 

[Ray Miller]

That's kind of what I was referring to. His actions and words say one thing, then contradict themselves two posts later. Consistency is not a word in his vocabulary, until he hunts and pecks around a little bit. Makes me wonder what kind of production he puts out. His problem, not mine. I'm just here for the information I can find or possibly contribute, not argue with people.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Well, we aren't talking about how hard it is for businesses to be bought though.

This all started from you saying

Right here you are saying that at least 5 of your longstanding, decent volume customers were bought up. But now you're saying that it doesn't happen?

Look, the buyer and the seller must agree on the price. So, any legitimate sale of a business, a sign or a bag of peanuts is a transaction where both people voluntarily agree that the money is worth the thing, and that the thing is worth the item. I don't care if the people paying the money are paying more for a thing than it is worth, or if the people selling the thing take less money than it is worth - in the end, both parties go through with the deal because it makes sense to them. Hopefully, someone who has been working hard at their business has something of value, and if there is a sale of a business, I would expect that the former business owner gets enough money for them to be satisfied. That is a good thing. That means that they made a deal that makes sense to them. Just like when you sell a sign to someone, you and your customer benefit. I don't understand the sour grapes.

You're talking about small businesses with a single owner. I was talking about publicly traded companies that are small in comparison to the few giants in their particular industry. Like Subway getting bought by the group that owns Arbys. Not Mike the plumber buying out Joes Septic Service.

Edited to add: this was all to clarify my initial comment that at some point, you have to decide if you are gonna suck it up and live with 60-90 payment from the people that can keep you busy or turn your nose up at it and only deal with the annoying onsie twosie crap because they pay cash right now. If you don't spend all of your money and it wont matter when you get paid so long as you get paid.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

How many local hardware stores are competing with lowes, home depot and even some of the smaller chains ??
How many tire shops are competing with BJs, sam's club and others ??
How many franchises do you see selling pizzas and sandwiches ??

You're lucky if you even are given a chance to be bought out and not run over/put out of business.

Competition is a mental roadblock for many people when it should be looked at as a challenge that can be conquered.
The problems start when these biggies get supplier pricing and exclusive access to certain products that makes it impossible for you to compete in terms of price.