High volume printing - advices needed

[messmedia]

So, we ordered our RS640. Finaly! I've been wandering this forum for quite some time, undecided, paused by many setbacks, some justified, some not, but our Roland is coming (and pretty fast, too!) :{)

We boxed out fast delivery from our supplier because we wanted a kick-start with new machine. We have big load of print appointed in a few days, and didn't wanna do it at outside vendor.

It's about 350-400 sq mt - ~ 3500-4000sqft of vinyl print. So, when machine comes, we will install it, start it, learn the basics, and when the techs go away, we will press print and print for like 3 days straight. Not that I don't understand the importance of getting to know the equipment, but - no time for it now!

Anyway, I wanted to hear some advices from You about this kind of no-stop printing.
- What's good to do, and what's not?
- Do I need to rest the machine somehow, to print certain amount of vinyl, then stop for some time, or I can just keep on doing it?
- Any extra, or specific maintenance of the machine during that process? Do I need to clean it more often or something?
- Will this VersaArt RS640 survive this terror, if it is terror/hard for this kind of machine? - I must add that time gap will be pretty close - 5 days for print and application.

Our dealer already told us it's ok to print high volumes like these - but, I never trust sales persons completely (no bad words ment), and I really need You to advice me from "first hand".

Also, I'll be needing a Computer for RIP. Also, I will have Graphtec FC8000 hooked up on it. Any advice there? What should I look for to make my work as easy as it can?
- I assume plenty of RAM? 4Gb?
- Core2Duo 7500 - 2.8 GHz processor - is it enough for comfortable work?
- Do Graphic card performances influence Versa Works 3 in any way?
- What kind of connection with machine do You recommend for both - printer and cutter - USB or LAN? - If it is LAN, the cable will be very long, can it get in a way of speed of sending data?

Lot of questions, but I hope someone of You will have the time to answer. Also, other beginners like me might find it usefull :{)
So, thank You for any answers You might share!

 

[Ken]

With my setup, I can only use one printer or cutter (not both at the same time-- they can be hooked up okay, but...)...you may want to check that out.
You're very ambitious and I wish you well with your new machine. Hope you have good tech support from the vendor.
Cheers!
Ken

 

[Charlie J]

You shouldn't have a problem having both machines running at one time. You almost have my exact same setup: RS640 + Graphtec 7000.

As far as printing 24hrs+.

I'm not exactly sure what could be wrong with that. You're going to want to stay nearby so that you can change print cartridges. You may consider giving the machine a break for an hour or so after several hours of printing. Now would be a good time to set up a maintenance schedule. You can keep track of how much printing you're doing and make a note to manually clean the print heads every, say 12 hours of printing.

Just a thought.

 

[B Snyder]

What files types and sizes are you printing? What are the sizes of each print? Are they raster, vector or both? One file printed 300 times or 300 files printed once each? What resolution will the job be printed at? How many passes? What is the speed of the printer at those settings? What media are you printing on? Are you using generic media profiles or creating your own? Will you have a take-up reel? Are you laminating? Does your supplier have 1 day access to every possible part that could need to be replaced on the machine? Do you have a UPS for your computer and printer?

Unless the printer is operating in a room that isn't cool enough there should be no reason to have to give it a break.

I can't image putting myself through the kind of stress that comes from not knowing one bit about any part of the computer, RIP or hardware while being under the gun to get the job completed satisfactorily. Good luck though!

 

[jasonx]

Be careful with the Roland Take up system for unattended printing. If there is any form of static or your core isn't put on tight on your take up system you might find a lot of media on the floor in the morning when you arrive. The dancer bar goes past that sweet spot that engages the micro switch to make it turn. If you can try and have a webcam set on your printer and setup some remote vnc software incase you need to stop your printing.

Also check your ink levels because you don't want to hit print assume the printer is going to print 10 hours and it prints for one hour and you come in the morning to find you've lost a lot of time.

Just make sure its on very tight.

 

[Jester1167]

Good luck, I have found that when theres no time for problems, thats when they rear their ugly head.

I would start printing while the techs are there. If there are any problems they can help you trouble shoot.

Make sure you always have and extra set of ink carts on hand.

You also need to dry your prints a minimum of 12 hours (24 recommended by the manufacturers) before you laminate. If not your prints will be extra sticky, the edges will curl as soon as you peel the liner, and the adhesive will fail prematurely.

 

[B Snyder]

You also need to dry your prints a minimum of 12 hours (24 recommended by the manufacturers) before you laminate. If not your prints will be extra sticky, the edges will curl as soon as you peel the liner, and the adhesive will fail prematurely.

I know what you're saying but I don't want the newbie to misunderstand. The prints will be dry (or should be) as soon as they hit the floor or take-up reel. The ink will not be cured for some time though. There are differing opinions on the necessity of waiting for the ink to cure before laminating but whether waiting is necessary or not, the cure time will vary depending on the ink density, air temperature and air movement.

 

[messmedia]

^^^^Wow, it's like, THE CORE of knowledge and Your experience - THANK YOU ALL!

And yes, I am quite a bit worried about all this, but using outside vendor for this is not the option (besides me not earning ANYTHING, I also can't trust'em enough to do this one right - for many reasons)

Anyway, prints are gonna be for ... we call it stand - constructions for a fairy that's gonna be held here. We will print graphics for stands of 36 companies. Those are made as we speek (not by us, though), and they're gonna be made with mediapan material (!? - if that is english word for it) - with smooth and varnished surface.
Size - I dont have the schemes yet, but it's gonna be 9, 15 and 25 sq mt stands, and no curves (straight panels). Don't know the height of it either, but I'm guessing I will not be able to mount, like, 1.5 mt at once (surfaces are gonna be shorter). I'm going to see examples made first thing on Monday (wow, it's TOMOROW :{))

Since we will do applications AND removal of graphics, we thought of using ORAJET 3620 matte for it, since it is removable vinyl?

And, about print settings - my thoughts are on printing it on STANDARD print mode (10.4 sq mt, or around 110 sq ft per hour). Don't know if that would be appropriate quality for this event (I've never seen roland's standard print quality, and don't know what other print quality options I have).

What print quality would You use?
Stands are gonna be posted at a big hall with artificial light (that's why I think of using matte vinyl), and are gonna be seen by few thousands people passing by it (pretty close), so, what quality (Roland speaking :{)) should be enough?

I guessed we will not need to laminate (!?), because it is temporarily apps, and gonna be removed like, 3 days after we apply the last of it (!?) :{) - Or I'm talking nonsense?

@JasonX - cool idea with camera! gonna see it through! - About software - don't really know what is that You said - remote vnc software - is it something that allows me to stop printing like, from my home, through Internet?

 

[astro8]

I'm no RS640 expert and someone jump in if I need correcting as I'm just trying to help out, but to me it looks like you'll be printing at around 10sqm an hour at 720x720.

Not laminating will save time but may cause more grief in the application.

There are some matte laminates here that are pretty cheap so I would laminate it if it was me as I wouldn't want any application marks and scratches and matte laminated gives graphics a quality look.

The RS640 looks like it has a decent take up reel..it's up to you to set it up perfectly in the first place...don't just think it will be OK...make sure it's OK as per Jasons remarks.

What I'd be more concerned with is setting up and ripping all those files..the printing part from my viewpoint is the easy part.

Hope it all goes well and let us know how you get on.

 

[mac_man_luke]

You should be fine

Standard mode eg 720x720 is fine, you might even be able to get away with 720x540 if its not fine text etc

Cant see there being a problem with the take up reel as the way it works with the bar
as long as you tape the media to the core well it should just keep winding eg as prints come out bar lowers - take up rolls up till bar is off the switch

Dont forget also that rolls of media are only ~70m2 so you have to be around to change media roll every ~7hrs (+ ink when it runs out!)

 

[signs2trade]

I have two XC-540's. I bought a piece of pvc pipe to use as the take up reel. Tape sticks to it when attaching the prints and it comes off easy with a tug. A couple of things you must do......1. Load the vinyl properly. Make sure the vinyl is coming through the printer square. Use your rollers. When you pause the machine to attach the vinyl to the take up it must me attached squarely . If not the take up will pull the vinyl sideways causing a head strike and then jamming the head against the vinyl. Watch your prints.....do not leave it unattended until you have mastered loading the machine and attaching the vinyl to the take up......Make sure the break is not on. If you roll out excess vinyl behind the print sometimes you will get a xy axis motor error when the slack runs out and you then start pulling directly off the heavy roll of material......
Hope this helps

 

[messmedia]

^^ thanx again.
It's really gonna b true test, for me - and my machine ... :{)

... since I don't have laminator, can liquid lamination help (though, I must wait 'till it's dry?? - How much time does that take?)

 

[astro8]

forget the liquid laminate...if you haven't or don't have access to a laminator try and get the thickest matte (satin) removable vinyl you can...the thicker it is, the easier to apply...also the drier (cured/outgassed) the print, the easier to apply.

 

[JesperN]

It sounds like you need to have an arsenal of asprin and Cola ready :-(.

I would not recommend anybody to throw themselves into such a project without having a good background experience - and at least some experiance with the printer, hardware and software.

BUT, now that you got the project underway and have bought the printer, you have probably passed the point of no return. So lets try to make the best of it:

- First of all; You need to be absolutely sure that you have sufficient media and toner for the job.

- Before you start on the job, you NEED to know your printer. Get the technician to run a number of small jobs through with you. And you also have to learn how to manual clean the printer and the basics on how to avoid headcrash etc. - otherwise you will have killed the printer before you reach the end of the job.

- Be absolutely sure that you have the correct profile for the media (get the technician to help you with this too).

- Make a small (10-20% size) testprint of each file on the media with the correct profile to make sure that the RIP processes the file correctly and everything looks as it should - before running the file at 100% size.

- Eventhough VersaWorks are quite stable, I would not recommend on such a time critical job, that you load and RIP files while the printer is printing. If VersaWorks somehow crashes, you will have to re-run the current file again and therefore have wasted expensive production time. This will also mean that the printer will be able to "rest" while you prepare the next file.

- Don't run the printer without having an eye or ear on it. At our company we have a glass-wall between our office and the room where our four printers are running, so that we can keep an eye on them. A curled media and a following headcrash is the last you want to happen on this project.

- Manually clean the printer for every 8-10 hours of printing - eventhough it does not need it. If you wait until it needs it, you will probably realize that it needs cleaning when it starts dripping ink on the media or making ink-streaks. So to prevent re-runs - clean it before it needs to be cleaned.

There is another thing that I'm concerned about; And that is the time schedule. I think it's going to be extreemely tight. The latest version of VersaWorks can calculate how long time it will take (roughly) to print the file - but it is not able to include to time for fileload, rip'ing, test-print, re-runs and material/tone replacement. And with my experience (15 years in the graphic industry) I'm concerned that this could end up in a potential disaster unless your are really lucky - expecielly seen from the perspective that you have no experience with the equipment. But if you take the advices from me and the other users into concideration you might and up getting through the project - with both yourself and the printer intact .

/Jesper

 

[tdgraphics]

messmedia,

I have a SP540, and although it is slower than your machine, it will run and run. I don't have a take up roller, but I had mine printing for a full 5 or 6 days, 20+ hours a day. My wife and I kept a constant vigil rolling up the material as it printed, hour after hour and it worked well.

The only thing I would say is that after many many hours of printing, ink sometimes gets around the head and starts to drop on the media. If that happens, clean the machine as per the manual and then print again.

Regarding the PC, you can run VersaWorks from the same machine as your cutter. The only thing that you needs loads of RAM and power for is the manipulation of the artwork in Illustrator or whatever package you use. The RIP software needs a beefy enough PC for the RIP process, but if your cutter PC may well be fine.

Last thing, the lamination, you need to have some substance to the printed images to allow easier application. I would alsway laminate something like that, even for a few days.

Neil

 

[messmedia]

You know, best things in life ARE free.
And this goes to this help of all of You here. It always amaze me - how people are generous sharing experiences.
Thank You all for that.

So, it seems, general opinion would be - it can be serious problems, mainly due to my inexperience.
And, I really should hold my backup (my vendor) - to jump in if needed.

On a funny side, I'll add that some (still don't know how much) of those stands we must design! - How 'bout those deadlines now, huh? :{DDD
All this to me is the real meaning of "up to my throat".
I guess we'll see how good I swim ...

Thanx again, people ...

 

[Checkers]

Gee, nothing like jumping in with both feet, eh?

Don't forget, when something is "free", you get what you pay for.

I don't like to shoot people down when they're trying something new, but I gotta agree with Jesper on this one. You're looking to do a whole lot in a very short period of time. Most newbies can take weeks, if not months, just to learn and get comfortable with their printers.

If you keep production in-house and manage to survive, this project will be one helluva learning experience that will teach you how much you really don't know.

Because of the time constraints, I would seriously entertain paying the extra money just to keep the "technician" around for an extra day or 2 to make sure everything prints correctly.

As B Snyder pointed out, the quantity, size and quality of the files will be the first issue you may run into. So, you may need a faster computer with a lot of free hard drive space. The same applies to how you print. And, depending on your set-up, you may need a print server too.

Another major concern would be prepping the prints and installation. The first issue is time - which you don't have. And, although I have installed many graphics without a vinyl laminate or application tape, it can be time consuming. So, hopefully, you'll be working in a climate controlled environment.

Finally, would be very concerned about rushing a project like this. Although everything can work and you may make money, the amount of money you can loose on a project like this could be devastating to your business. What happens if...
you miss the deadline? Or,
you meet the deadline but, a few days later, the material starts to fail?
Can your company afford these (potential) losses? You may be stuck with a new printer, a whole bunch of media and one helluva invoice for stuff that your client may be unwilling to pay for.

good luck!

Checkers

 

[messmedia]

Yes, I completely agree with You. So, I am gonna split this job with my vendor (until now). Perhaps they wouldn't hold too much grudge about it ... :{)

There is one more bad fact I learned today: we will have to mount graphics in ONE NIGHT (from 10pm to 9am next day)- due to working schedule of the place this fairy will be held in. So, It's like, I will need at least 10 men to finish it, and they have to work night shift.
Good news is, panels are flat, and BIG so not much connecting edges, and I'm gonna be able to use wider rolls, which will significantly speed up printing process (... "unattended printing", less roll change, more print cover at once ...)

Anyway, as someone said: "Good Fortune Follows The Brave" :{)

 

[anax]

hello,
messmedia I print almost only for fair- stands. Normal size in poland for stands is 2,4x0,97 cm. I use oracal 3164 (1,05 m width), always matt- dry faster and almost noone use glossy because of light reflections.
I also ordered my machine (vp540) for fast 300 sq mt of print in june for fair but my vendor failed, I received machine one month later, when no fair time started-2 months of holidays. And I've to tell you that I had time to learn iot, tips etc.
However- when you print for fair- fast profile is fully sufficient (320x720)- in VP540 it gives about 6-8 sq.mt/h, RS is a little bit faster (as Roland say) however remember that they lies about speed
Well I've 12 sq.m/h but when I print banner in billboard quality means lowest quality. Sometimes I even use this profile to print on vinyl

and about ink.
I know that you get x litres of ink for the start. I don't know how it's in Montenegro, but in Poland normally good price for 1 sq.m. is about 7,3 $ (for a client who prints a lot f.ex.500 sq.m). There are people who take about 5$, but noone likes them
If you use original inks- you won't gain any money, and sometimes you'll have to add some extra money from your pocket. So , count carrefully.
Well maybe I'm wrong and in Montenegro a lowest price price for one sq.m. is 25$ so don't worry

I use esmax inks (NOT ECO-SOL MAX)- one liter=about 66$, original 1 liter=about 310$ (in Poland). Easy to calculate.
My vendor gave me full guarantee with this ink , and I use the same profiles as for original ink. I like colors, but I print almost for fair- they don't have time to look on colors too much- 3 days and fair is off. However I had no problems with clients yet

Take up reel is VERY IMPORTANT for fair. Whese are long parts and needs to be on roll. I don't have original one, mine works on visual sensors. Sometimes vinyl doesn't go straight so you have to look sometimes on it and correct rolling. I've online camera (when I'm home-but I've home very very close to machine ) and when something goes wrong I go for intervention.

For fair I never use laminating- no reason for that.
But it's good if printed vinyl dries a little bit. When you have full color (black, deep blue) it's hard to aplicate this without drying- it's veeery soft and easy to stretch.

For fair I almost always get TIF's, 120 dpi, sufficient

well that's all I think, good luck. I do this with my girlfriend. Application of about 250 sq m, simple panels 2,4x0,97, 2 pers, take us about 5-6 hours

Anax

 

[anax]

oh again about laminating- NEVER for fair- Client won't pay for that unless he want's to take panels with him but it almost never happend. Then he have to pay for panels and laminating+stand+place on fair= big amount of money. And in most cases client change promotion of his product on next fair (and change graphic)and sometimes different companies (who makes stannds) have different panels so Client won't use his panels on different fair
for aplication we use long wood panel with fitted carpet- one move- 30 second, and vinyl is on its place Easy work BUT NEEDS practice!!!

Anax