Horror stories about sign companies

[ams]

What are some horror stories you've experienced with other peoples signs, designs, installations, or just dealing with another sign company. Any scammers, con artists, etc out there?

 

[CanuckSigns]

Not much of a story really, just always surprised when we do trade work for other shops how poorly artwork is set up, and when I explain how I need it done I usually get blank stares.

Also most are extremely cheap...

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Someone around here likes wrapping the ends of lamps in masking tape...

 

[0igo]

Number one is price. Some of these guys charge next to nothing for example went to go look at a customers sign (8*32). The sign is at least 25-30ft up high. He wanted ACP panels all installed. I gave him my quote but he said that the price was way too high. That another company charged him $2000 for all that and they would include a whole front store wrap in perforated material (8*14ft). I laughed and walked away.

The second was this lady got charged a crap load of money for some good quality signs. The guy comes with banners and then puts them up with one screw on each side. Banners didn't even last a week. Then the dude went MIA lol.

 

[ams]

A local sign shop about 10 miles away wanted me to use my bucket truck to reinstall a sign that had fallen down. It was a 3" thick wooden sign with routed square face (recessed) that had aluminum in it. He took care of putting the aluminum in and then gave to me to install. I watched as he poured half a tube of glue on the wood and stuck the aluminum on it. Then thinking it may not hold, he put 4 self tapper screws through it. Seeing how the screws looked awful and stood out, he handled me white spray paint and asked me to spray the screws after it was installed to blend them in. The spray can paint was for plastic. He wasn't sure the other side would hold either (was double sided) so he put 4 screws in that side as well.

 

[ams]

Another was a print shop (standard business cards, flyers, etc) started getting into signs. They fired their sign guy they hired in house and asked me to help them. At a university they wanted me to install about 18 stair riser strips (on the face of the steps). They provided everything, all I would do is install. Soon as I started the first one, discovered it was a 2mil car wrap film. Unlaminated, no transfer tape. Sadly it went really bad. After that one I shut it down and said it's not going to work and ripped it off. I told him that it's the wrong kind of vinyl. So I let them borrow my vinyl and laminate, used a 3 mil with a 2.5 mil laminate, came back and everything went smooth and fast.

Also same print shop, asked me to wrap a hood of a van with their provided vinyl. Normally super easy, however they provided me with Oracal 651. I kid you not. I called and said that I don't want to install it and that it will get screwed up. He didn't care and said the customer is picking it up tomorrow, just do it. Yeah turned out like crap, didn't stretch or conform in some tight pockets (not a flat smooth hood, but bumps, recessed areas and air vents). About 80% done I stopped, gave it back and said it needs to be ripped off and redone, this was a waste of time. Needless to say, we cut ties. They were going to install a mural 7' up in the air, was about 5' tall X 60' and was going to do it on ladders. I wonder how it turned out.

 

[HDvinyl]

I hate that any moron with an IQ under 50 can buy a small amount of cheap equipment and consider themselves with a new "career".

So many donkeys in the industry now, I never tell anyone new that I meet(in person) that I own a printing company as one of the "so, what do you do?" questions.

 

[JTBoh]

Had a vehicle bumper wrap for a major regional power company's brand new Chevy volt, when they were first coming out. They said they had vinyl already made for the project, and that it would be on-site (at their warehouse) when we got there. We get there, put on our full PPE as per request, and the vinyl isn't there yet.
Vinyl arrived via courier 1.5 hours later.
Bumper is, end to end, 60". Vinyl is, end to end, 60". There is a massive indent on volts where the license plate is.
There are no markings on the backer. It did not have air release... I don't think it was even cast.
It also wasn't laminated.
The car was due to be at a "major event" 2 hours after the vinyl arrived. We were 40 minutes from our shop.

We told them that this literally cant be done, asked them why they just didn't use our vinyl ,and were promptly removed from the premises.



Manufacturer Fail:
Did a retractable directory system for a convention center. 18 retractables, 3 day turnaround, "installation" at the convention center day of at 0600 hours.
Used a brand similar to every other cheap retractable. Used the factory tape on the top mount, no added banner or VHB. Instructions didn't mention it.

Worked until 1130 at night getting these suckers put together, woke up at 500 the next morning.
Got them installed by 8, left. The AC in the convention center was down, and this is Baltimore in August.

Got a call at 915 saying that one of the banners had "fell down". Went to go fix it, and by then 4 more had fallen. As we are fixing the damn things, 6 more fail. We slap tape on all of them, took the rest of the day, on-site, with people watching our product go down the drain.

We changed into T shirts instead of our company polos.

Chalked it up to manufacturer error and "high moisture content".

 

[letterman7]

Too bad I didn't see this thread day before yesterday or I would have snapped a photo. Fitting new faces in a typical slide-in lit box. Customer says that it never lit right, but doesn't want to mess with it right now (good thing.. we were only there for the faces). Pulled the old ones out and nearly fell off the ladder laughing... whomever was in there last took all the fluorescent tubes out and hardwired (and daisy-chained) 8 of those caged worklights in the cabinet. Sort of wrapped them around the support poles.

I knew it was going to be a good day after that...

 

[bannertime]

The second was this lady got charged a crap load of money for some good quality signs. The guy comes with banners and then puts them up with one screw on each side. Banners didn't even last a week. Then the dude went MIA lol.

We see a lot of that. There's a sign guy that has a truck around here. He comes around, does some signs, and disappears for a few years. Customers call and ask if we can fix his stuff cause they can't find him.

They provided everything, all I would do is install. Soon as I started the first one, discovered it was a 2mil car wrap film. Unlaminated, no transfer tape.

Had a broker come in asking if I could install some graphics on a few box trucks. Said sure, we'd prefer to print and install ourselves. Gave him a price and didn't hear back. A few months later he comes in with one of the trucks and a box of graphics. Asks if we can install that day. I literally couldn't help but laugh, yet he was serious. Said it wouldn't even be close to the price we originally stated, he said okay. I look at the truck and it's not even remotely clean. I look at the graphics and they are unlaminated, no air egress, terrible banding, and the back was all stained, straight out of Mexico. You couldn't pay me enough to work with that nightmare. Wasn't the last time we encountered imported graphics either.

I hate that any moron with an IQ under 50 can buy a small amount of cheap equipment and consider themselves with a new "career".

This exist in just about every industry now. I don't care about those people. I get pissed at the rich dudes that get into the business. They outfit a whole warehouse with equipment and then can't do anything right. Then they go and undercut everyone. Luckily we've been around enough to watch a few of them die off.

 

[Nuagedesigns]

Being from a small town we do our best to support our town. Case in point our mayor came to us to help write a proposal for a state grant to get funding for our town to purchase new signs for our local Industrial park as part of an Economic Development grant. My wife helped with design and cost quotes there were to be multiple carved signs and the town had speced aluminum posts. We helped with the proposal writing, which the town used to receive the grant money. Once the job came to fruition another fly by night shop had come to town. No worries. We bid the job accordingly and the other shop was awarded the job at less than our material cost alone. I reviewed there quote and it was very vague with the information that was on there and lacking of even more details. Long story short they were almost 18 months late on delivering anything after receiving 80% payment some how. All signs were almost un-readable and the craftsmanship was shoddy. As well as misspelling of the towns most well known benefactor on the 50% of signs ordered that the town received. Posts were steel and not aluminum, paint barely covered the surface and began to rust within weeks. This sign company also held the old signs that they removed as ransom to try and get paid the balance. After the town sued them and pulled their bond We then were awarded the job to be done correctly.

 

[Rick]

All we do is design and specifications, we send out bids all over the globe and have worded our documents so that only qualified sign shops should do the work... that is not always the case... there is not enough bandwidth on this site to explain half the horror stories but my favorite are when sign shops win the bid and start pissing contests with us... I always say... are we judging on distance, volume, accuracy or PMS Yellow color match... that usually breaks the ice. Usually cheaping out on materials, don't follow specs - especially when we call out hidden attachments, bad color matches, ignoring typeface choices, shoddy installations, bad braille translations.... yes, I can read most braille, or my favorite, they undermine us and try to get our client...

It always surprises me that when you hand a 200-400k project over to a sign shop and all they have to do is permit, fabricate and install, that they would try to steal a client instead of doing a great job and getting more work from us... always bogles my mind...

We have had great experiences too, they get put on the referred bid list we share with other designers and clients.

The ones that undermine us (and other designers) are put on the sh!t list - we share that too...

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

All we do is design and specifications, we send out bids all over the globe and have worded our documents so that only qualified sign shops should do the work... that is not always the case... there is not enough bandwidth on this site to explain half the horror stories but my favorite are when sign shops win the bid and start pissing contests with us... I always say... are we judging on distance, volume, accuracy or PMS Yellow color match... that usually breaks the ice. Usually cheaping out on materials, don't follow specs - especially when we call out hidden attachments, bad color matches, ignoring typeface choices, shoddy installations, bad braille translations.... yes, I can read most braille, or my favorite, they undermine us and try to get our client...

It always surprises me that when you hand a 200-400k project over to a sign shop and all they have to do is permit, fabricate and install, that they would try to steal a client instead of doing a great job and getting more work from us... always bogles my mind...

We have had great experiences too, they get put on the referred bid list we share with other designers and clients.

The ones that undermine us (and other designers) are put on the sh!t list - we share that too...

You know what percentage of subs do a great job, ok job, bad job? What would you consider a top sub? Turn-around time/ price/ communication?

 

[Rick]

You know what percentage of subs do a great job, ok job, bad job? What would you consider a top sub? Turn-around time/ price/ communication?

70% - but of those, we have usually worked with them before.
25% So-So - usually because they ignore the specs but fix the issues when brought up...
5% is usually get fired because they relied too much on outside vendors or had no clue what they were doing... we last fired a client sign shop because they did terrible work... good money, but we don't want to be involved with ripping off a client with crappy work.

We have had projects go bad, but the shop fixed it immediately, we end up giving them another chance because they are willing to fix it.

Quality of work and communication is the main thing we look for... since that are open bids, the projects almost always go to the lowest bidder, but our specifications are pretty clear as to what we require using standard construction specs. Turn around times are part of the contract, we usually have a reasonable schedule. We have had issues with some subs, but most have a penalty clause so they usually get it done in time or we adjust the times if there are issues with the project.

 

[brycesteiner]

I did a really nice job on a semi box truck.
I also have to admit that one of the worst jobs was done by me--today!
We were called by a school to have new sponsor signs up on their brand new score boards. These are nice boards and start at about 12-15 ft in the air. Dual 30 amp breakers power these score boards. It's outdoors and I have been bugged by the school to get out there because softball and baseball had already started.
We tried twice already and I said it's too cold and wet for vinyl to stick. Well today, finally the temperature was decent and we went out to get them on but it was 25 mph winds.
We put them up anyway just because. We got them all up but one without too much problem. The last one was just covered in ink and we struggled to get it up without wrinkles.
I wanted to take down the sponsor panels and then apply the vinyl in the shop but they used pop rivets rather than sheet metal screws.
I just said "screw it! You can't see the problems from 15' away anyway."

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

70% - but of those, we have usually worked with them before.
25% So-So - usually because they ignore the specs but fix the issues when brought up...
5% is usually get fired because they relied too much on outside vendors or had no clue what they were doing... we last fired a client sign shop because they did terrible work... good money, but we don't want to be involved with ripping off a client with crappy work.

We have had projects go bad, but the shop fixed it immediately, we end up giving them another chance because they are willing to fix it.

Quality of work and communication is the main thing we look for... since that are open bids, the projects almost always go to the lowest bidder, but our specifications are pretty clear as to what we require using standard construction specs. Turn around times are part of the contract, we usually have a reasonable schedule. We have had issues with some subs, but most have a penalty clause so they usually get it done in time or we adjust the times if there are issues with the project.

Thanks for the info. About half of my work is as a sub. Rarely do I have to redo work if I do it's because I mis read something. I always get positive feedback, nice to know the experience on the other end of the deal so thank you for the reply.

 

[ams]

I hate that any moron with an IQ under 50 can buy a small amount of cheap equipment and consider themselves with a new "career".

So many donkeys in the industry now, I never tell anyone new that I meet(in person) that I own a printing company as one of the "so, what do you do?" questions.

I see that everywhere now. It's sad, they go and buy the cheapest China equipment on ebay and advertise as a one stop sign shop. Luckily they come and go. I see most copy shops getting into signs (I've worked with a few and it was a nightmare).

 

[ams]

Being from a small town we do our best to support our town. Case in point our mayor came to us to help write a proposal for a state grant to get funding for our town to purchase new signs for our local Industrial park as part of an Economic Development grant. My wife helped with design and cost quotes there were to be multiple carved signs and the town had speced aluminum posts. We helped with the proposal writing, which the town used to receive the grant money. Once the job came to fruition another fly by night shop had come to town. No worries. We bid the job accordingly and the other shop was awarded the job at less than our material cost alone. I reviewed there quote and it was very vague with the information that was on there and lacking of even more details. Long story short they were almost 18 months late on delivering anything after receiving 80% payment some how. All signs were almost un-readable and the craftsmanship was shoddy. As well as misspelling of the towns most well known benefactor on the 50% of signs ordered that the town received. Posts were steel and not aluminum, paint barely covered the surface and began to rust within weeks. This sign company also held the old signs that they removed as ransom to try and get paid the balance. After the town sued them and pulled their bond We then were awarded the job to be done correctly.

I get that problem all the time. I bid on local and state jobs where there are several bidders. The winner is always the person that is lowest, regardless if it's his first day in business or he works out of his apartment. More often than not, the signs are terrible. Even if I lose by $5, they don't care.

However I did notice that some cities are using a point system. They judge the bidders by age of business, turn around time, location, etc. In some ways this is good, but other ways not.

 

[Gino]

All ya really hafta do for this subject is read about 85% of the threads and posts on here and you'll read some real horror stories.

 

[Sign.ed]

This exist in just about every industry now. I don't care about those people. I get pissed at the rich dudes that get into the business. They outfit a whole warehouse with equipment and then can't do anything right. Then they go and undercut everyone. Luckily we've been around enough to watch a few of them die off.

I left a shop like this about a year ago. I started with him in June '14 brand new shop brand new owner, by November he had bought another store that was a $1M/year store. I was let go, went and worked for a real shop in Denver for about two years. I came back because I just needed work, when I showed up.... Sigh....

He had a warehouse was undercutting everyone, or strong arming other shops to be their exclusive channel letter manufacturer. Had two massive routers, two bucket trucks.

Also the $1M/year store:
Put a table top flatbed in the other very small location. No one knew how to run it. Their HP 360 that I helped install in '14 we as barely functioning. Laminator had 3 major cuts in the rollers, and a chunk out of one. They had a "paint booth" in the back. It was just a wall of 040 alum that they put up. No vent, no clean air, nothing, not even an ac vent went in there.

The $1M/year store was flying through work in '14. In 216 when I came back through their most lucrative job was a 4 hour turn around on 651 for a men's Warehouse and they were vinyl name tags for fitting rooms. $4.50/PC, about 1,000 pcs per month.

I jumped shop (meant "ship" but hey +1 for autocorrect) as soon as I could. I'm in a better-ish place. We just turned out a $100K print job yesterday. Still working for an owner that I have to explain Cast V Calendar to, but at least she's hasn't sunk a million dollar a year store n less than 2.

She's not without her faults either.
6 days after I started, we were doing a re-wrap of a re-wrap on a door of a van that had been wrecked...

The first RW was crooked and short, so re-printed, didn't find out until the soon to follow sh!t show that the file was wrong. Started to peel the door... Pulled up about a square foot of paint....

They had the door painted, hung, and RW'd the first time all with in 3 days... I was berated by the customer for damaging their vehicle, affecting the re-sale value, for fisting them more money, yadda yadda yadda.
"Yes, I understand on all wraps we should state we are not responsible for aftermarket paint or installs. We didn't have that explicitly written on the plastic bag, but paint is soft, it takes time to cure. Just like you aren't suppose to roll your windows down after getting them tinted, it stay out of the house when you have your wood floors resurfaced. I thought that was a given, guess not."

Needless to say we lost that contract. I hated working with that couple anyway. "Oh you're ex-army, that doesn't excuse you from being a d***head, though." So bad want to drop that truth bomb.


I has more but I'll let someone else have a turn.




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