Hourly shop rate

[Texas_Signmaker]

In a way yes. So like a 4' X 8' 1/2" wood sign, single sided. I estimate 1 hour of employee labor for laminating, trimming and laying down the graphic. So his rate is $16/hour for wages, so I will add $20 or $25 for a fabrication charge built into the cost of the sign.

Designing, most signs I can design in 20 minutes or less, so I don't charge for design time, I make enough on the sign it's self. Customers get pissed off at extra charges not relating to their product. However after 2 revisions, I start charging $10 per revision. If it takes an hour or so to design, includes clipart, logos or anything I have to go out and search for, I charge $35 and again after 2 revisions it's $10 per revision. If it's like a menu, high detail or logo creation, I charge $20/hour or $99 flat fee with a max of 1 revision, and then $15 per revision after.

You don't make your money on fabrication or designing, those fees are to help offset your operating costs and payroll. Your money should come from installation and the price of the sign. I usually charge $550.00 for a 4' X 8' 1/2" wood sign, just handed to the customer. I make around $200 - $250 profit on it. Unless there is a mess up, sometimes only around $150 profit.

For installation, basic one man install is $55 / hour, two man is $80 / hour. Electrical or bucket truck is $95 / hour. I don't charge a trip charge within 10 miles of the shop. If it's more, it's 95 cents a mile for the van and $1.40 a mile for the bucket truck. If it's the bucket truck and the trailer both, it's $1.55 a mile.

When I started in 2006 I was charging more on labor then you are now...I'm double them now. Didn't really understand anything else in your post....went way over my head.

 

[bannertime]

We just lost a 8'x10' full color banner WITH pole pockets AND an oversized adjustable stand today to another local shop who quoted the client $275.00 for everything stand included. The stand alone is $135.00 wholesale with shipping from Sign-Mart. They are doing the banner for $1.75 per square foot. Even if they send it out to Signs365, it'll cost them $110.00 plus shipping.

Why even bother getting out of bed for that kind of stupidity?

That's just disgusting. Probably sold them an 8x8 thin tube china stand and some low pass banner with no pockets. lol.

 

[bannertime]

When I started in 2006 I was charging more on labor then you are now...I'm double them now. Didn't really understand anything else in your post....went way over my head.

Yeah, no kidding, we're told that we are low on the labor rate and we're double those prices. My absolute lowest rate is $75 and that's if I have someone removing graphics.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Yeah, no kidding, we're told that we are low on the labor rate and we're double those prices. My absolute lowest rate is $75 and that's if I have someone removing graphics.

I think your right about being low. I say double ($110/hr) but reality is I've been pricing higher then that lately...seems the work just won't slow down this year. I think I'm around a buck fifty now on non-bucket installs.

 

[ColorCrest]

I'd be interested to see what prices you Californians get on signs compared to the rest of the country. From what limited insight that I have, I suspect you get about the same as us in Texas...despite having a cost of living many many times what ours is.

FYI, know that the cost of living in California vs Texas is not "many times" more. A commonly quoted value: Los Angeles is 13% higher than Dallas. Like sign prices however, research numbers run the gamut.

It's not hard to imagine a fully outfitted shop in Los Angeles owned free and clear with efficient people and processes can sell product at lower costs than other shops elsewhere but still make a better margin. The same could be true for any shop anywhere. Individual businesses are just that, individual. They can have very different burdens or benefits. With the sheer amount of sign-making capacity, price pressure is no wonder.

 

[ams]

But do you turn around and sell it for $1.75 per square foot?

The work, whether we outsource its production or not has an intrinsic value just for its advertising value alone that either has to be accounted for, or why bother even being in an "advertising" related business. The throat someone cuts today might be mine, but the throat someone cuts tomorrow could be their own.

Nope not at all, much higher.

 

[ams]

When I started in 2006 I was charging more on labor then you are now...I'm double them now. Didn't really understand anything else in your post....went way over my head.

If you can point out what you don't understand, I can clear it up

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

FYI, know that the cost of living in California vs Texas is not "many times" more. A commonly quoted value: Los Angeles is 13% higher than Dallas.

I don't know that I buy that figure. From what limited knowledge I have, housing is double, if not triple what it is here. Gas is over $1 extra, (that's 30%?). Your cost of electricity is higher? (Our is about 11 cents kwh) and of course you famous for high taxes. Maybe some politician came up with that 13%, but that doesn't sound right to me at all

EDIT
Here is something I found: Los Angeles is 75% more expensive than Dallas.
https://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/dallas-tx/los-angeles-ca/65000
https://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/dallas_tx/los_angeles_ca/economy

 

[ddarlak]

I generally charge $75 an hour for everything, mark up on materials is between 40-100% depending on job. Markup on jobs I send out wholesale is 100-150%. Your cost of living decides what you need to charge, your talent level decides what you can charge.

That said, after I finish the numbers on a quote I generally bump up the final total 15-25% based on what I think it's worth and or what I think I can get. It's a game of how much can I get off the table and into my savings account.

 

[Gino]

Si Allen, an older member here, used to say...........

You give them your quote and if they don't bust out laughing, you then say, plus installation.

​

 

[BillyBoy86]

Your cost of living decides what you need to charge, your talent level decides what you can charge.
.

mind if i steal this?

 

[ColorCrest]

If you can point out what you don't understand, I can clear it up

Mainly for the benefit of the OP when he asked, "Do you use more of a materials+labor time a multiple?" . . .

In a way yes. So like a 4' X 8' 1/2" wood sign, single sided. I estimate 1 hour of employee labor for laminating, trimming and laying down the graphic. So his rate is $16/hour for wages, so I will add $20 or $25 for a fabrication charge built into the cost of the sign.

Do you realize you have answered the OP by giving two very different multipliers for this labor rate for the same task? (The second rate multiplier being more than double the first rate multiplier.)

Any particular rational being used here for the difference in labor multiplier?

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Mainly for the benefit of the OP when he asked, "Do you use more of a materials+labor time a multiple?" . . .


Do you realize you have answered the OP by giving two very different multipliers for this labor rate for the same task? (The second rate multiplier being more than double the first rate multiplier.)

Any particular rational being used here for the difference in labor multiplier?

That's where he lost me

 

[ams]

Mainly for the benefit of the OP when he asked, "Do you use more of a materials+labor time a multiple?" . . .


Do you realize you have answered the OP by giving two very different multipliers for this labor rate for the same task? (The second rate multiplier being more than double the first rate multiplier.)

Any particular rational being used here for the difference in labor multiplier?

I have a complicated labor and materials rate. I find going by only one figure doesn't work.

 

[TimToad]

In a way yes. So like a 4' X 8' 1/2" wood sign, single sided. I estimate 1 hour of employee labor for laminating, trimming and laying down the graphic. So his rate is $16/hour for wages, so I will add $20 or $25 for a fabrication charge built into the cost of the sign.

Designing, most signs I can design in 20 minutes or less, so I don't charge for design time, I make enough on the sign it's self. Customers get pissed off at extra charges not relating to their product. However after 2 revisions, I start charging $10 per revision. If it takes an hour or so to design, includes clipart, logos or anything I have to go out and search for, I charge $35 and again after 2 revisions it's $10 per revision. If it's like a menu, high detail or logo creation, I charge $20/hour or $99 flat fee with a max of 1 revision, and then $15 per revision after.

You don't make your money on fabrication or designing, those fees are to help offset your operating costs and payroll. Your money should come from installation and the price of the sign. I usually charge $550.00 for a 4' X 8' 1/2" wood sign, just handed to the customer. I make around $200 - $250 profit on it. Unless there is a mess up, sometimes only around $150 profit.

For installation, basic one man install is $55 / hour, two man is $80 / hour. Electrical or bucket truck is $95 / hour. I don't charge a trip charge within 10 miles of the shop. If it's more, it's 95 cents a mile for the van and $1.40 a mile for the bucket truck. If it's the bucket truck and the trailer both, it's $1.55 a mile.

If we tried to sell a 4'x8' out of 1/2" MDO for $550 with an expectation of a 40-50% profit margin and paying the employee who did most of the work on it $16 per hour, we'd never have to buy MDO again.

 

[Gino]

If we tried to sell a 4'x8' out of 1/2" MDO for $550 with an expectation of a 40-50% profit margin and paying the employee who did most of the work on it $16 per hour, we'd never have to buy MDO again.

I'm sure this is a tongue-in-cheek kinda deal, but not sure which way ?? You left it sorta open-ended. Are we just supposed to guess what you mean ??

 

[TimToad]

FYI, know that the cost of living in California vs Texas is not "many times" more. A commonly quoted value: Los Angeles is 13% higher than Dallas. Like sign prices however, research numbers run the gamut.

It's not hard to imagine a fully outfitted shop in Los Angeles owned free and clear with efficient people and processes can sell product at lower costs than other shops elsewhere but still make a better margin. The same could be true for any shop anywhere. Individual businesses are just that, individual. They can have very different burdens or benefits. With the sheer amount of sign-making capacity, price pressure is no wonder.

You're kidding right? The median price of a house in Dallas, TX is $193,500. In LA, it is $675,000

Unless you are getting free help from homeless folks, deeply discounted materials and free electricity, there is no way to compare the two locations or most places.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

You're kidding right? The median price of a house in Dallas, TX is $193,500. In LA, it is $675,000

Unless you are getting free help from homeless folks, deeply discounted materials and free electricity, there is no way to compare the two locations or most places.

Yea and for $675k you can get a run down 1200 sq. ft. house on 1/16 of an acre... or at least that's what I see on Flip or Flop. Blows my mind they spend half a million on those houses

 

[TimToad]

Yea and for $675k you can get a run down 1200 sq. ft. house on 1/16 of an acre... or at least that's what I see on Flip or Flop. Blows my mind they spend half a million on those houses

My nephew just paid $1.2 million on a less than 1,500 square foot house in Culver City, which is a really nice, beachfront community, but that is a lot of money. We better get back on topic.

 

[ColorCrest]

You're kidding right? The median price of a house in Dallas, TX is $193,500. In LA, it is $675,000

Unless you are getting free help from homeless folks, deeply discounted materials and free electricity, there is no way to compare the two locations or most places.

You realize the cost of a house does not equate to the cost of living, right?

The number I posted was given to me over the phone from a longtime acquaintance who used to head up one the nation's largest relocation services for companies such as AT&T. He said the last number from LA to Dallas he learned of came to him a couple of years ago when a significant printing company was looking to move. The company decided upon Austin. He explained how complex the data is with one hazard being if the mover doesn't sell their home within the given timeframe, the relocation company purchases the home with the hope of saving their client and not losing money themselves. It's not necessarily always a pretty picture for all three parties.

Like I said in my post, anyone can find and cherry pick research numbers to suit their argument just like anyone can find their price for a sign if they look for it. Search Google today to see current cost of living between the two locations and I think you will find the numbers are all over the spectrum.

BTW yes, a shop in L.A. can actually sometimes get free help, namely from outreach shelters. They may also find deeply discounted material still sitting in harbor warehouses from the shipping strike 3 years ago. Further, a shop can seem to get free electricity from solar investment, in their opinion anyway.

Maybe back to the topic of hourly rate calculations for the OP?