How are HP 700W/800W's running now that they have been in the market a few months?

[solock]

Our epson S80600 is looking like it may be in need of a new head or both, it isnt the first time so I'm looking to be as informed as possible before I commit to that expense.
Were running in higher quality modes which allows us to get things printed but the time is near to repair or replace.

The HP 700W is most interesting as it allows 3 or 5 layer whites (CWC or WCWCW) that the epson doesnt, and since head replacement is planned into the expense, I wont be impacted with the sudden espense of a multi thousand dollar head replacement.

My concerns are the between panel color shifts of previous Hp Latex printers and the between panel length issues.

It appears that these have either been addressed in the 700/800's or that there are workarounds that circumvent these issues.


What is the general satisfaction with these printers in the real world now that there are quite a few out there?
What has your real costs per sqft been when all consumables are accounted for?
Any surprises for those who came from solvent to latex as to Material X hates the latex or vice versa?

Any red flags that I should be aware of?


Thanks,

Steve

 

[balstestrat]

I thought Epson can do 3-layer?

Question - Epson S80600 White printing - 3 Layers

Hello all, I have a Epson Surecolor S80600 10 color (White/Silver) roll to roll printer and need to print 2 layers of white on reflective media. Problem I have is I cannot find any profiles in the Epson database that has the 3L (color->spot->spot) option, all I can find are 2L (Color->spot)...

www.signs101.com

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

I think they mean the Epson can't do 5 layers.

 

[Grafix]

Just purchased the L700W myself. Would be interested in the costs per sq/m as I haven't yet worked it out or replaced any printheads etc.
Mike from Origin Wallpapers has had the 800W for a while and had all the issues you mentioned about panels still occurring for him, but it's slowly being sorted I believe.
The colours and speed are great. About to do our first CWC sandwich for some window prints.

 

[Pauly]

Just purchased the L700W myself. Would be interested in the costs per sq/m as I haven't yet worked it out or replaced any printheads etc.
Mike from Origin Wallpapers has had the 800W for a while and had all the issues you mentioned about panels still occurring for him, but it's slowly being sorted I believe.
The colours and speed are great. About to do our first CWC sandwich for some window prints.

Cost per SQM is down to how you use it. my SQM vs your SQM can be different.

 

[StickerGuy83]

HP Latex 800W owner here. It all depends on what your doing with it. It prints FAST. Quality is better than previous generations, but now you have 10 printheads which are around $200 each. Maint cartridge is also more expensive than the previous gens. Printheads have the same technology, just a different shape nozzle with a 10pl droplet opposed to the 12pl in the previous gen. Not that big of an improvement as far as graininess, but a lot things factor into that. But even at its best, it doesn't compare to the quality of an s80600. Its color gamut is nowhere near the Epson 9 color. Outdoor durability is good, but from my experience with it, I feel that the prints are not as scratch resistant as the previous gens.
The white is awesome. Very opaque. It does a lot more automatic cleanings and recirculate than the previous model, so in essence it will consume for in that aspect. As far a panel printing, I don't do any of that so I cannot comment on that. Its easier to load media on the 800 series. If you laminate you can disable the overcoat. Previous gen latex inks had issues with certain lams not adhering due to the resin in the inks. This can be turned off on the 700/800 series.

Again it depends on your workflow. I print a full 100' roll in about 2 hours at 10 Pass / 120% ink density. Ink consumption seems to be a bit more than I anticipated.

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

HP Latex 800W owner here. It all depends on what your doing with it. It prints FAST. Quality is better than previous generations, but now you have 10 printheads which are around $200 each. Maint cartridge is also more expensive than the previous gens. Printheads have the same technology, just a different shape nozzle with a 10pl droplet opposed to the 12pl in the previous gen. Not that big of an improvement as far as graininess, but a lot things factor into that. But even at its best, it doesn't compare to the quality of an s80600. Its color gamut is nowhere near the Epson 9 color. Outdoor durability is good, but from my experience with it, I feel that the prints are not as scratch resistant as the previous gens.
The white is awesome. Very opaque. It does a lot more automatic cleanings and recirculate than the previous model, so in essence it will consume for in that aspect. As far a panel printing, I don't do any of that so I cannot comment on that. Its easier to load media on the 800 series. If you laminate you can disable the overcoat. Previous gen latex inks had issues with certain lams not adhering due to the resin in the inks. This can be turned off on the 700/800 series.

Again it depends on your workflow. I print a full 100' roll in about 2 hours at 10 Pass / 120% ink density. Ink consumption seems to be a bit more than I anticipated.

Turn off what? The Optimizer?

 

[P Wagner]

Turn off what? The Optimizer?

With the 700/ 800 Series, the anti-scratch agent in the inkset has been separated into it's own channel (supply + printhead). It is possible to turn off this Overcoat fluid in cases where laminate is being used - benefits of this are to improve the laminate bond with the ink, and get some ink savings as a secondary benefit.

 

[yannb]

With the 700/ 800 Series, the anti-scratch agent in the inkset has been separated into it's own channel (supply + printhead). It is possible to turn off this Overcoat fluid in cases where laminate is being used - benefits of this are to improve the laminate bond with the ink, and get some ink savings as a secondary benefit.

I guess the overcoat function is separate from the utilization of the ink optimizer fluid? Is it a setting you can control per media in the rip?

 

[balstestrat]

I guess the overcoat function is separate from the utilization of the ink optimizer fluid? Is it a setting you can control per media in the rip?

Yes it's separate. Overcoat has it's own ink supply and printhead. You can turn it on/off and select the amount of it in the printer per printmode.
So you can have a profile for your normal work and a profile for lamination. Nothing to do with Optimizer.

 

[Rameez]

Going thru lots of issues after having the machine for a month. The power wire loosens up while printing. That leads to date strip damage that leads to printheads damage. After 5 days of getting all fixed up now getting the issue with the firmware issues which we try all ways to troubleshoot. now they are going to replace the hard drive which they are on backorder. Does anybody has got any issues with 800W?

 

[Daniel_Imprimeverde]

Going thru lots of issues after having the machine for a month. The power wire loosens up while printing. That leads to date strip damage that leads to printheads damage. After 5 days of getting all fixed up now getting the issue with the firmware issues which we try all ways to troubleshoot. now they are going to replace the hard drive which they are on backorder. Does anybody has got any issues with 800W?

Hi, I have one, lot of troubles, we bought it 10 months ago. If you have to print a complete roll of vinyl is ok. Troubles with te edges of materials, troubles with the edge protectors (one time it brokes 2 printheads), troubles with the updates. And last week printhead wires do something strange and fell off. Not happy with the investment. I hope that HP is fixing everything (hardware and software), we have a really good post-sale service, and many mahines more, so we don´t have to stop for an issue.

 

[Jake Indiana]

Might be a little late to the conversation but I have an 800W and I do not recommend it. Had it for 5 months or so and I've had endless trouble and already had a tech out to fix it. Trailing cables all came unattached and the print carriage strikes the maintenance cartridge from time to time. I've been fighting this thing non stop. I've replaced all of the printheads already (they're warrantied for half the use of the earlier models). I have a ton of trouble with banding no matter how many passes I use. I've crashed the print carriage so many times I just gave up on running more ridged substrates like reflective through it. It always crashes in the warm up phase where it spits out 4-5' of material and sucks it back in 3 times. Increased vacuum and installed edge holders (which they don't recommend) but the material sticks to the top of the curing module and backs up into the print zone. For what its worth, it does do a nice job of printing white but if I could just add white printheads to my old HP365 I would dump the new printer in a heartbeat.

 

[balstestrat]

(they're warrantied for half the use of the earlier models).

That is not true. Old 831 heads have 1000ml warranty. New 836 printheads have 1500ml warranty. So they are warrantied for 1.5x the use of old ones.

On the crashing, maybe you already know all this and I can't help you but have you tried printing from the pinches and adding a leading edge marginal in the profile? Then it won't do the dance in the start but it will advance it out before it actually starts to print.

 

[Jake Indiana]

That is not true. Old 831 heads have 1000ml warranty. New 836 printheads have 1500ml warranty. So they are warrantied for 1.5x the use of old ones.

On the crashing, maybe you already know all this and I can't help you but have you tried printing from the pinches and adding a leading edge marginal in the profile? Then it won't do the dance in the start but it will advance it out before it actually starts to print.

I'm a little confused because I checked my distributors website and you are 100% correct about the warranty. I might be crazy but I don't think my 365 printer flags them as out of warranty until they hit 3000ml. Unfortunately I can't confirm this because I recently replaced all printheads but I regularly use printheads in that machine past 5000ml with little to no issue.

As far as the crashing problem, I haven't set a lead advance in the profile yet. (that's another annoyance. The old system lets you set a blanket advance for all substrates instead of each individual substrate and print mode) I always manually advance substrate half way through the curing module (as I was originally instructed) but I've had it bind and crash many times while it was attached to the activated take up reel. Will setting a lead margin keep it from spooling material back and forth during the warm up?

 

[balstestrat]

Well I can tell you that your 365 will set them out of warranty as soon as that 1000ml hits.
Honestly so far I have seen that these new heads last longer than the old ones. But year or two more and we know better. Anyway...

Yep, if you set the lead in the profile and do not move the material before you start printing, it will not move it during the warm-up. Another way if you know the printing from pinches work without problems is adding a little bit of margin from the RIP. Which will also be "added" only after warm-up of course.
Worst thing you can do with this machine is move it a little before printing. As that will activate the warm-up move routine. I would either start from the zero or move it out of the curing completely.

I have noticed this machine is easier for people who have NOT used a latex before. That way they don't have any expectations of how things used to happen.

 

[Jake Indiana]

Well I can tell you that your 365 will set them out of warranty as soon as that 1000ml hits.
Honestly so far I have seen that these new heads last longer than the old ones. But year or two more and we know better. Anyway...

Yep, if you set the lead in the profile and do not move the material before you start printing, it will not move it during the warm-up. Another way if you know the printing from pinches work without problems is adding a little bit of margin from the RIP. Which will also be "added" only after warm-up of course.
Worst thing you can do with this machine is move it a little before printing. As that will activate the warm-up move routine. I would either start from the zero or move it out of the curing completely.

I have noticed this machine is easier for people who have NOT used a latex before. That way they don't have any expectations of how things used to happen.J

I set up a margin just to play with it. It's good to know how to bypass that big material spooling warmup. The downfall I see with that is I needed to add 12" to get it to feed into the curing zone and it wants to add that 12" every time I send a new job to the printer. So if I'm trying to add jobs as I get them or submit files separately (like plot file) it's going to end up wasting a ton of material. And I'm not even sure that will solve the problem since it also crashes in the middle of a print. I really have tried everything else I could think of to troubleshoot printing reflective. I just ended in crashing the printer about 30 times and wasting 50' of material.