How do I get the average Joe to understand about high quality artwork?!!!!!

[d fleming]

I'm not allowed to talk to customers just for this reason.

 

[Mosh]

"you can just get that off the internet.." I hear that daily.

 

[nikdoobs]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eM7uH4qNrw

http://www.youthedesigner.com/2012/08/12/how-to-explain-raster-vs-vector-to-your-clients//


Send them a link. There are hundreds of sites/ videos that explain the difference between raster and vector. Google raster vs. vector and send them a link.

 

[eahicks]

I'm doing a 10' x 4' window front for a design group. 10 graphic designers in the group. They ask me what I need, I tell them I need the artwork in Illustrator, to scale, and we'd get it knocked out of them. Cool. They got it. Had in depth conversations with them about the options and what we needed. They "got it", so I thought.

Opened my email and there was a 150 pixel x 150 pixel jpeg attached with the message "here's the artwork you needed for our storefront".

I would have said "Cool, thanks for the thumbnail image. Now please send me the final artwork".

 

[heyskull]

the best are the people who actually have access to PS or AI

hey have a jpeg and you ask for "the original pdf or illustrator file" and they take the jpeg and save it as .ai or .pdf.

OMG OMG this happens all the time.
It is as if the customer thinks placing the raster file into PS or AI does something magical to it.
All it does is make the image even crappier!!!

I even had a customer last week who had an app on his phone (didn't know one existed!) to convert a raster into a vector.
Needless to say a child with a dot to dot colouring book could have done a lot better and the end result was horrific, you had to squint to see what is was.

My hatred for the internet and the crappy images of it has now spiralled out of control.
As far as comparing between an "MS Word document and a picture of a page in a book", MS Word Documents are my second most hated thing below low resolution images of the internet...... Don't get me started!!!!

I hate customers who bring me images of artwork that look like it is 4" high and being viewed from 2 miles away and calling it high qualty!!

I like the idea of putting an image in the shop of a very low resolution logo and maybe putting how many hours and pricing to making it look like the finished object next to it.

As I read through this post I believe we all have this problem. Customers do not have any idea what is or isn't good artwork.
And trying to educate them with the difference between raster and vector you might as well be talking to a Sheep.

SC

 

[mjkjr]

Run into this a lot

I try to keep the explanation short and simple, I find something along the lines of the following works well enough for most:

"there are two ways a computer can store graphics: raster and vector. Raster graphics are just fixed grids of pixels, like a photo. If you stretch them out by scaling they will get distorted. But vector graphics are created and stored as math so when you scale them the details are recalculated perfectly and you don't lose quality."

Whole conversation takes less than a minute. Some people require a little more explaination, but the only technical terms in there are the ones I'm explaining.

I agree that a visual aid helps too, sometimes I'll also pull up a raster graphic in illustrator and scale it, while the customer sees the result, then do the same to a vector graphic.

If they don't understand after all of this then its not worth wasting more time and breath on it, just figure it into the pricing if they continue giving you poor artwork. And always proof.

I am going to try making a flier for our product books and small banner or sign for inside the shop for educational tools on the subject too, something like what Jillbeans mentioned. I think that would be a good time saver that people browsing our showroom would probably read out of their own curiosity. That could shorten the above conversation even more. They can just say "so where do I get a vector version of my logo"...

 

[CanuckSigns]

The best I've been able to come up with in terms of explaining "vector vs. raster" to customers:
It's like the difference between an MS Word document and a picture of a page in a book. In a text document you can change fonts, sizes, move things around, and words don't get fuzzier if you increase the font size. With a picture of page from a book, I can't change the spelling, font etc. Get it? They usually kinda do. . . but still send bad "artwork".

"So you want me to put the image into a word document before I email it to you? I can do that!"

 

[bikecomedy]

the best are the people who actually have access to PS or AI

hey have a jpeg and you ask for "the original pdf or illustrator file" and they take the jpeg and save it as .ai or .pdf.

Sorry this happens to you too. Do they also look down their nose as if you don't know what you are doing since they sent it in the file format you requested? That happened recently. I was floored. I am reforming my requests.

 

[bikecomedy]

"you can just get that off the internet.." I hear that daily.

Wish I had a dime for every time someone said this and added, "it's simple".

 

[CES020]

Raster graphics are just fixed grids of pixels, like a photo. If you stretch them out by scaling they will get distorted. But vector graphics are created and stored as math so when you scale them the details are recalculated perfectly and you don't lose quality.

I wish I worked with your customers. Mine don't know what a pixel is.

For some circumstances, I've had decent luck asking "Can you see the image on your computer" and if they say "Yes", then I say "Then it's not the format we need". Sometimes they will tell me "I can't open the file or see it" and then I say "Send it on, it's probably exactly what we need".

A receptionist somewhere isn't going to have the ability to see eps, Corel, or Illustrator files. Unless you're on a Mac, you're not going to see previews of eps files, so it does work from time to time.

 

[Sign Works]

Why on earth did we ever think that it was somehow necessary for the customer to have a complete understanding of what it is that we do and how we go about it? This same customer for an example does not expect a mechanic to explain how his automatic transmission works and how he is going to go about rebuilding it, he mearly accepts the fact that he knows nothing about automatic transmissions and asks the mechanic to do the necessary work.

I have personally come to the conclusion that telling the customer that the provided artwork is insufficient or incorrect is sufficient. Trying to explain image resolotion to the average computer user is an exercise in futility. Then you could spend the entire afternoon trying to explain the difference between raster & vector images to someone that's entirely incapable of comprehending either, come on to them it's just all pretty pictures on their magical monitor. Any longer I simply tell them what is needed and if that doesen't happen then how much it will cost for me to reproduce it.

 

[dawg]

need to print some samples, made with vector and made out of bitmap..
computergraphics can hold surprizes even for experts, so customer i think cant picture what we trying to say..

enlarge a bitmap A letter and place next a vector A same sized..

sure the customer will chose the right one..

also you can make sample print of a 1000x1000 pixel bitmap print out as 4 feet by 4 feet.. customer will see immediately the pixels..

to explaining with words... i dont think will work..


of course you save these samples for customers.. or just hang in the office.. well marked they are samples to explaining differences..

 

[AnthonyRalano]

No. It is easier than all of this "the customer is the enemy stuff". 1. You get the art. 2. You realize it won't work. 3. You use your design skills or your designer' design skills and you make it work. 4. Your customer smiles. 5. You get paid.
A designer in a sign shop should already know that this "art not good enough" scenario will happen. A designer in a sign shop should be able to be resourceful and recreate most art if needed. Quickly. Get ahold of what you are doing and make it happen. If you cannot do this and don't make the time to learn design any further, you will always have this lil pain in your soul that will never go away.

 

[mjkjr]

You should reassure them

Why on earth did we ever think that it was somehow necessary for the customer to have a complete understanding of what it is that we do and how we go about it? This same customer for an example does not expect a mechanic to explain how his automatic transmission works and how he is going to go about rebuilding it, he mearly accepts the fact that he knows nothing about automatic transmissions and asks the mechanic to do the necessary work...

I ask my mechanic to explain why my transmission needs to be rebuilt, then I can decide if I trust his assessment or if I think he is full of it and I need to seek another opinion.

Sometimes customers just want to be reassured that there is a reasonable explanation as to why you say you can't use artwork that otherwise seems fine to them. Sometimes they trust you, but are curious. If they feel like you are dismissing this concern of theirs you are likely to lose their business as they lose their trust in you.

 

[mark galoob]

the worst are the ones that call them selves "graphic designers". i always cringe when i hear someone tell me they are a graphic designer, or have one designing stuff for me to print...usually these are the biggest morons.

 

[player]

the worst are the ones that call them selves "graphic designers". i always cringe when i hear someone tell me they are a graphic designer, or have one designing stuff for me to print...usually these are the biggest morons.

They could also be your biggest customers...

 

[showie]

To the MX specific customer (because I know they can be a pain, because I work with them a lot as I'm a racer myself so I get a lot of "can you do a, b and c for x, y and z dollars?") I use this analogy which works very well when I get low res images.

"You're asking me to race Supercross on a trail bike; it's doable, but it's going to be expensive to convert what you have me (low res images/trail bike) into what I need (high res/Supercross bike)."

It doesn't come off as smug, it lets them know what you need and it does it in a way they can relate to, because they know the difference between a AMA Pro SX bike and the trail bike you buy at the local shop on clear out.

Again, this only works for MX specific (though I guess you could sub F1 race/Ford Pinto for an automotive).

I'd love to hear what other analogies come out of it. I liked the Video Game one, again, people can conceptualize the gap.

 

[DesireeM]

When I'm simply trying to explain about low-res vs high-res artwork I try to keep it simple and not get into too much technical language. I'll usually start with the dots per inch vs how many inches it is and how you can change the size but not the number of dots and so on. Next If the customer is present I'll take the image and tell them to use the zoom tool as a guide. So let's say it's a picture of a dog....and at 100% zoom in whatever program it's 5x5 inches on screen but they want to use it on a sign at 2x2 feet. I get them to zoom into the dog until it's roughly that size (most times it's bigger than the screen so I'll show them with my hands what the boundaries of the image are in the air). Then I tell them that's how pixelated it will be if seen from the distance we are away from the screen. Then I get them to zoom out in increments and tell them ok - so this is what you'd see at 5ft away, 10ft away etc...

If they aren't with me I do the zoom thing in photoshop and save a jpg then send it to them and ask them to view it at 100% and explain the whole thing.

Explaining the difference between raster and vector is a little more complicated and you kind of have to adjust based on the customer.

 

[nikdoobs]

the worst are the ones that call them selves "graphic designers". i always cringe when i hear someone tell me they are a graphic designer, or have one designing stuff for me to print...usually these are the biggest morons.

Had someone tell me "First off, I went to school for graphic design so I know what I'm talking about." right before she began to critique my kerning on her fire truck graphics. I knew it wasn't going to be good as soon as I heard her say that.

She argued that every letter needed to have the exact same spacing between them. I tried to explain to her how the negative space behind each letter affects how letters should be kerned. She said I was feeding her BS to try to get her to shut up.

 

[Ponto]

Average Joe??? hey!!! What's the deal?

I think like anything, it takes practice to get good at talking to customers about this stuff. I'm not perfect at talking with customers, but I do know that I get better at it every day. It also helps to have a few visual aids at your disposal. We too have a print out that shows a zoomed in picture of a vector graphic vs raster. We also tell them that vector is important for certain applications because certain machinery requires vector line art to produce a design. And that is really the only time you need to spend on that. They don't need to fully understand it. All you really need is to convince them that having both vector and raster is better than having just raster. They can spend their own time researching the exact differences between the two, they probably won't because I'll bet you they don't really care. They just want the best option, and if you are trying to sell them original design work all you need to do is convince them that the best option is a worth while investment if they truly want to be able to use their logo or design.

Also, I think it's easier to get your point across if you have confidence when you talk about the importance of good artwork. You have to know your stuff, and believe it, or at least act like you do LOL. I had this discussion the other day with someone else at our shop who was frustrated that the customer didn't listen to them but listened to me after I was called in. And at that point I think it had to do with confidence. Everyone at our shop excels at certain things, but not everything. However, our skillets seem to compliment each other. When they were struggling to convince the customer that black lettering on their window was a bad idea, I was called into the room for support. I was introduced as an authority on the subject. Which gave me better footing going into the conversation. I said the exact same thing she did, the only difference is when I said it I put less of an emphasis on the explanation for why it was a bad idea and had more of a "this is just how it is" attitude. I was nice about it of course.

If early on you establish yourself as the expert on the subject that THEY are coming to YOU for, they tend to hear you out and trust you on all the following decisions that need to be made. You somehow need to find a way to assure them that it's in their best interest if they listen to you and that it's in your best interest if they make the right decisions, because doing so will make them more successful and if they are successful they will be able to hire you more in the future.

Really, if you think about it, you're not just selling a sign or a design. You are also selling yourself as the expert on the subject and as the go to guy or girl for these projects. Because ultimately you want them to come back for more right?

LOL... you sold me... absolutely spot on!!! JP