How Do You Do Your Pricing?

[Pauly]

I need to change my pricing structure. Years ago i made an excel spread sheet to price jobs. It's gets complicated to use but it seems to work.

If anyone is willing to share how they quote/price jobs that would be a lot of help.
*Note i'm not asking how much you charge for signs ect. Just want to know how you'd price up your jobs. More really Roll media and rigid media.

Thanks.

 

[bob]

OK, here's a method that prices the job by area on a curve where the smaller the job the more per unit of area and the larger the less per unit up to an arbitrary asymptote. The materials and any installation are added to this.

If goes like this: First determine the absolute minimum per square foot for which you'll work. Call that MIN. Now determine what you'd charge for a onw square foot or less job. Call that Max. Call the area of the job, in ft^2, AREA.. Now calculate the price thusly: (MAX-MIN)+MIN*AREA. This calculates a price on a curve that becomes asymptotic about your MIN per ft^2 value.

Now add in materials marked up at least 100%. For substrate anything 1/2 sheet or more or special order material gets charges as an entire sheet. For vinyl charge for vinyl unrolled, not just used, also marked up at least 100%. FOr special order vinyl charge for the entire roll.

Now add in installation, if any, and you have a price that is fully rationalized.

 

[OldPaint]

MAKE MONEY........... or go to mcdonalds and flip burgers)))) its that simple.being in the business(back when profit was 90%)we all made money$$$$$$$
we got $150-300 for set of truck doors.
we got minimum $320 to $500.......single sided 4 x 8.
set of magnetics $75-150.
we PAINTED WINDOW SPLASH for $5-7.50 sq ft.
wall murals.......if we had to paint the wall with new background $5-7.50 sq ft.
wall murals........art work/lettering $10 sq ft.........
and in all my years.....i do NOTHING FOR LESS THEN $5 SQ FT!!!!!
old sign painter friend of mine always said.......
ASK AS MUCH AS YOU THINK YOU CAN GET.......if they are ok with it, ADD MATERIALS OR MAKE UP SOMETHING ))))

 

[bannertime]

MAKE MONEY........... or go to mcdonalds and flip burgers)))) its that simple.being in the business(back when profit was 90%)we all made money$$$$$$$
we got $150-300 for set of truck doors.
we got minimum $320 to $500.......single sided 4 x 8.
set of magnetics $75-150.
we PAINTED WINDOW SPLASH for $5-7.50 sq ft.
wall murals.......if we had to paint the wall with new background $5-7.50 sq ft.
wall murals........art work/lettering $10 sq ft.........
and in all my years.....i do NOTHING FOR LESS THEN $5 SQ FT!!!!!
old sign painter friend of mine always said.......
ASK AS MUCH AS YOU THINK YOU CAN GET.......if they are ok with it, ADD MATERIALS OR MAKE UP SOMETHING ))))

That worked great before they invented phones and eventually computers. Now we have "educated" customers that find "full color banners from $1.25 sqft!" all over the internet. Granted there are customers that are still stuck in the past, like yourself. Heck, some customers don't really care how much you charge as long as it's good work. Thing is, you won't get good money unless you ask, but these days you can't just pull numbers out of your... magic paint can. A shop that wants to be professional still needs to know their cost of goods and labor and how to mark them up.

 

[OldPaint]

given stuff away at CHEAP PRICES.......... professional??? ok.........thats what happened to this business.........its got nothing to do with talent or ability to draw and design..........IT ALL ABOUT WHOS THE CHEAPEST....... and like you said........those of us that were TALENTED, COULD DRAW/PAINT & WERE FAST AT IT......... we made $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ i could work 1 day and make as much as you do..in a week(profit)......AND NO STORE FRONT, NO PRINTER LEASE PAYMENT, NO BIG ROLL OF $$$$ MATERIAL & INK........and walk away with 90% of what i got paid in PROFIT))))))))
YEP..... we did well. ten the vinyl cutter started its........decline. then the printer....well now everybodys a professional sign guy........if you cn put an image on the screen and HIT PRINT)))
I STILL DO WORK.......AT MY PRICES............ you want cheap.......there are 3 print shops in town........who i know will it for less.......

 

[Johnny Best]

I think Amazon has this now for $6.95 in paperback edition.

 

[sardocs]

I tried reading that book, but it was all in capital letters.

 

[ColoPrinthead]

I think Amazon has this now for $6.95 in paperback edition. View attachment 127867

miss((((((((ing a few))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

 

[printhog]

Heres a simple take on pricing... do what the franchise shops do.. they've got to keep their franchises in business to sell more franchises, so they have worked out the bugs in financials and pricing.. Most franchise disclosures I've seen state that their franchisees have a 25% or less cost of goods - some are 20%. So reversing that, total all your materials and multiply by 4 for a 25% COGS or 5 for 20%.

Fairly simple, but to be honest, thats a great financial target to be at. For them it covers franchise fees, co-op ad costs, local ads, and that real estate they are in. Those things give independent shops an advantage, as the franchise fees and co-op costs can be 7% or so, and that real estate can be expensive.

To get an idea of what retail stores do in revenue per sq ft annually, look at the chart ive attached. To figure your rate - take your shop's annual sales and divide by your sq ft of floor space. That will give you a metric to see if you're anywhere close to the benchmarks for retail sales. Franchise sign shops in strip malls have to hit the $150 psf/yr mark to stay open. Most hit the $225-250 range. If youre not there, consider raising prices and changing your in shop marketing to upsell clients better. After all, you're in this to make money.

 

[OldPaint]

thanks johnny be good.......YOU JUST PROVE what i said........if you can put an image on the screen......hit print....... YOU ARE NOW A SIGN GUY))))HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA
really bad.whatever you where trying to do.......
POINT IS........THIS IS WHAT THE BUSINESS IS TODAY.........thanks

 

[Johnny Best]

Who never learned to read or write so well, miss that guy.

 

[Pauly]

Thanks everyone for your input. Much appreciated.

given stuff away at CHEAP PRICES.......... professional??? ok.........thats what happened to this business.........its got nothing to do with talent or ability to draw and design..........IT ALL ABOUT WHOS THE CHEAPEST....... and like you said........those of us that were TALENTED, COULD DRAW/PAINT & WERE FAST AT IT......... we made $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ i could work 1 day and make as much as you do..in a week(profit)......AND NO STORE FRONT, NO PRINTER LEASE PAYMENT, NO BIG ROLL OF $$$$ MATERIAL & INK........and walk away with 90% of what i got paid in PROFIT))))))))
YEP..... we did well. ten the vinyl cutter started its........decline. then the printer....well now everybodys a professional sign guy........if you cn put an image on the screen and HIT PRINT)))
I STILL DO WORK.......AT MY PRICES............ you want cheap.......there are 3 print shops in town........who i know will it for less.......

I have no idea what you're on about or how much paint thinners you've been sniffing today...

But I'm one of the more expensive glass print shops in the state and people come running to me to get their jobs done.
I also do more than just glass. and i try to be competitive to an extent.

 

[GB2]

OK, here's a method that prices the job by area on a curve where the smaller the job the more per unit of area and the larger the less per unit up to an arbitrary asymptote. The materials and any installation are added to this.

If goes like this: First determine the absolute minimum per square foot for which you'll work. Call that MIN. Now determine what you'd charge for a onw square foot or less job. Call that Max. Call the area of the job, in ft^2, AREA.. Now calculate the price thusly: (MAX-MIN)+MIN*AREA. This calculates a price on a curve that becomes asymptotic about your MIN per ft^2 value.

Now add in materials marked up at least 100%. For substrate anything 1/2 sheet or more or special order material gets charges as an entire sheet. For vinyl charge for vinyl unrolled, not just used, also marked up at least 100%. FOr special order vinyl charge for the entire roll.

Now add in installation, if any, and you have a price that is fully rationalized.

Bob....am I missing something here...the way I'm looking at your formula, your rate will always be your MAX and there is no curve:

MIN = $3
MAX = $12
AREA = 3 (1st example) 8(2nd example)

Example 1:
(12-3)+3*3=36
(9)+3*3=36
12*3=36

Example 2:
(12-3)+3*8=96
(9)+3*8=96
12*8=96

 

[bob]

Who never learned to read or write so well, miss that guy.

Me too. He was a one off.

 

[bob]

Bob....am I missing something here...the way I'm looking at your formula, your rate will always be your MAX and there is no curve:

MIN = $3
MAX = $12
AREA = 3 (1st example) 8(2nd example)

Example 1:
(12-3)+3*3=36
(9)+3*3=36
12*3=36

Example 2:
(12-3)+3*8=96
(9)+3*8=96
12*8=96

Not a math major, eh? In any equation multiplication and division take precedence over addition and subtraction. Parentheses alter this priority and stuff within them is done first. Attend...

Your Example 1 done properly:
(12-3)+3*3=9+3*3=9+9=18 Do the subtraction in the parentheses THEN the multiplication THEN the addition

Likewise your example 2:
(12-3)+3*8=9+3*8=9+24=33

If you do a few more examples and graph the results you'll see and exponential curve that rises swiftly and then tends to flatten out into a linear line. That's 'tends', it's always a curve. It just gets hard to see.

 

[OldPaint]

Thanks everyone for your input. Much appreciated.



I have no idea what you're on about or how much paint thinners you've been sniffing today...

But I'm one of the more expensive glass print shops in the state and people come running to me to get their jobs done.
I also do more than just glass. and i try to be competitive to an extent.

GUESS YOU DIDNT READ LAST LINE........ i said "there are 3 other sign shops in town who will do it for less."
and i have to "splain".........that to you??? NOT ALL ARE CHEAP, CHEAP OR CHEAPER.........I ALSO SAID I GET MY PRICES.....
but the MAJORITY of print/sign shops out there..........ONLY SELLING POINT IS LOW LOW PRICE)))

 

[eahicks]

Signvox.

 

[WrapYourCar]

GUESS YOU DIDNT READ LAST LINE........ i said "there are 3 other sign shops in town who will do it for less."
and i have to "splain".........that to you??? NOT ALL ARE CHEAP, CHEAP OR CHEAPER.........I ALSO SAID I GET MY PRICES.....
but the MAJORITY of print/sign shops out there..........ONLY SELLING POINT IS LOW LOW PRICE)))

Greatest thing about the new cheap cheap shops.. they usually close down within a year. I run a small business and my Dads advice "6x cost is what you want to aim for".. 4 x is still ok but 6 is going to help you succeed long term. He ran a successful jewellery store business for over 30 years.

 

[Johnny Best]

Greatest thing about the new cheap cheap shops.. they usually close down within a year. I run a small business and my Dads advice "6x cost is what you want to aim for".. 4 x is still ok but 6 is going to help you succeed long term. He ran a successful jewellery store business for over 30 years.

Pricing, good luck with the math and software products. Price fairly as to what the market is and

We call them Pawn Shops with that pricing set up here mate.

 

[ddarlak]

ASK AS MUCH AS YOU THINK YOU CAN GET.......if they are ok with it, ADD MATERIALS OR MAKE UP SOMETHING

I do this more than actually price chit out.

seems like i've been doing this forever, i guess i have slipped into a ballpark mode.

i don't think i'm ever the cheapest guy.

 

[bob]

Pricing, good luck with the math and software products. Price fairly as to what the market is and

We call them Pawn Shops with that pricing set up here mate.

Used properly the math and the software products merely rationalize what you already have in mind as well as allow some degree of repeatability. A price is always more acceptable if it comes as the result of actual calculation and/or software as opposed to one you blow out of your butt. The former is what makes the client feel warm and fuzzy, the latter is what you're going to do regardless. You just need to rationalize the latter with ritual and algorithm.