How do you price vinyl?

[Justin]

Good Afternoon,

I've already read the sticky, but it seems to not be a complete formula for cost/pricing.

How do you calculate the cost of cutting say, a 3" x 10" box of letters? Do you charge for the entire 24" wide area(if you use 24" rolls), or ? How do you charge it? square feet, or square inches, or ? What formula do you use, or would you use for 3" x 10"(or 24" if charging full roll)?

I don't subscribe to premium, and this is in the Sales, Marketing, Pricing Etc. section. I know a few of you like to hassle people into going premium just for this type of question.

Thanks,
Justin

 

[J Hill Designs]

shop minimum

 

[Gino]

Nah, we're not hassling anyone doing this, we just can't give complete answers for free.

Based on your lack of search button capabilities, I would probably say it's safe to use a materials and labor number and add your overhead in while leaving room for profit and taxes.

You see, that's a very vague question.

• You're using 30 square inches of vinyl, but are you cutting out 275 1/4" letters or 5 2-1/2" letters ??
• Is it serif or san-serif letters ??
• All upper or upper and lower ??
• Is it script ??
• How 'bout reverse cut ??
• Is it a specialty color or just run-of-the-mill black, white or red ??
• Is it just a once 'n done ??
• Or do you have multiples ??
• What will your local market bear ??

So many things enter into the equation that merely cutting a 3" x 10" worth of vinyl might be anywhere from $1.50 to $75.00.

You might not belong to the 'Premium' membership, but based on your request, it could very easily be your best investment you ever made in this industry. ​

 

[sar bossier]

Too many variables to give pricing - your costs (elec, rent, rental/leases on equip, vinyl costs, labor, etc) all factor into pricing (or should). figure up YOUR total costs, for everything, including payroll, then figure out what YOUR business minimum PER HOUR charges are, then do a comprehensive local price market survey (to gauge what your competitors charge for misc. products), THEN figure out what you need to make per item or sq. ft. to be profitable.

 

[signswi]

3 Goats

I don't have premium but this question has been answered about 400 times in the last month alone, use search.

 

[SignManiac]

I wouldn't charge less than $100.00 myself.

 

[Circleville Signs]

6 million dollars....

OR

You could actually learn about this business BEFORE going into it....That's probably too much to ask though....

 

[TyrantDesigner]

You're going to be the first to get my form answer.

Alright business 101.

Take your materials (m) and overhead (o) and apply a margin (preset %) and that will be your supply cost (s). (M+O)x%=(s)
Next estimate your man hours (h) and multiply what your cost (c) for that and you will have your labor (L). (hxc)=L
add your supply and labor costs together. that is your minimum price (p) to break even . S+L=P

Anything above and beyond is whatever you feel comfortable with quoting to make a profit.

Your ink, substrate, printing materials, cutting blades, laminate, cleaning solutions, etc are your ACTUAL materials ... overhead is all the intangible stuff like power, water, the roof over your head, your machine costs.
Margin ... margin is your way of covering hidden costs and the such if you operate on a 50% margin on goods you should be multiplying by 1.5, 100% is 2, 150% is 2.5, ect. The margin is primarily a way most shops cover OOPS events or miscalculation of supplies in the quote without hurting profits.
Man hours is the amount of hours you expect it to work, so 2 people working for 1.5 hours would be 3 man hours.
your man hour cost ... is your cost of pay, taxes, etc. you can have a margin set to this as well.

 

[Fred Weiss]

If you read my posts in the sticky thread starting with Post #23 you should be able to then calculate a shop rate. Did you really read all 134 posts?

From there it's just a matter of (shop rate x time to cut, weed, mask and trim out) + (material cost x material markup) = Selling Price.

For example: ($75 x .5) + (.50 x 2) = $38.50

All that's required of you is to know how long it will take you up front.

 

[Pat Whatley]

I was going to offer my method of pricing but after reading Fred's I'm a little confused about why we've always priced letters the way we have. Fred's method makes a heck of a lot more sense.

A job that small is more of an annoyance than anything else. With Fred's method you're at least getting paid well for it.

 

[Justin]

6 million dollars....

OR

You could actually learn about this business BEFORE going into it....That's probably too much to ask though....

Oh really? You mean your on SIGNS 101 because you already KNOW this business? Gee, who woulda thought the type of people that would be on SIGNS 101..

You have a bad attitude.

 

[Justin]

If you read my posts in the sticky thread starting with Post #23 you should be able to then calculate a shop rate. Did you really read all 134 posts?

From there it's just a matter of (shop rate x time to cut, weed, mask and trim out) + (material cost x material markup) = Selling Price.

For example: ($75 x .5) + (.50 x 2) = $38.50

All that's required of you is to know how long it will take you up front.

Well I mean more based on deciding the cost, and markup. I actually did read all the posts.

Is it typical to charge by the square inch, and if so charge for using 24" of material, or just charge what is actually used, and hope to use that scrap another time?

 

[J Hill Designs]

charge for your time. IMO material is almost negligible, esp at that size.

Anything that will take me any time less than an hour I charge my shop minimum of 1 hour ($65) - I mean ANYTHING - you need a new letter L at 1"? $65. firm.

 

[Fred Weiss]

Well I mean more based on deciding the cost, and markup. I actually did read all the posts.

Is it typical to charge by the square inch, and if so charge for using 24" of material, or just charge what is actually used, and hope to use that scrap another time?

While I might charge by the square inch or foot, that would only be a shortcut based on having calculated the time and materials enough times to be able to mentally adjust for it. So for example, I might charge $8 a square foot for 3" letters on HP cast vinyl in Helvetica Medium and I might charge $15 a square foot for .75" Times New Roman on the same vinyl. Simply charging by the square foot with no allowance for differences in difficulty (AKA time needed) is not something I would do.

There is also the matter of the dollar size of the order. I would charge more per foot for half a foot than I would charge for 100 square feet.

 

[Justin]

charge for your time. IMO material is almost negligible, esp at that size.

Anything that will take me any time less than an hour I charge my shop minimum of 1 hour ($65) - I mean ANYTHING - you need a new letter L at 1"? $65. firm.

Seriously? I'm being honest. People around here would think your crazy for that, and you'd be put out of business for not having business.

But even then, the real question I have is do you charge by square foot for that 1" L, or square inch, and do you calculate the charge based on say a square around that 1", or for the entire 24" width(or w/e) of the vinyl?

 

[tsgstl]

Oh really? You mean your on SIGNS 101 because you already KNOW this business? Gee, who woulda thought the type of people that would be on SIGNS 101..

You have a bad attitude.

I'm not defending him, but...
I am more on here to talk about the business in a social environment that was unavailable just a few years ago. I don't think anyone thinks they "know everything"
I have only been here a little over a month and I have seen at least 4 threads almost identical to this one.
I hate talking my business with anyone, mostly because I don't want to hear about business with anyone at a party or with friends. I could care less about what engine they worked on or god forbid what house they just sold.

As for your last post about scrap. Let me tell you something about scrap. Scrap bins are just a waiting box to go to the trash. I have one for vinyl one for materials and one for banner material. None of them get used. By the time you get around to needing something it is creased or scratched. If you can use a piece of scrap consider it a bonus. NEVER BANK ON SCRAP or you will fail. If you are concerned about wasting material on a 24" roll of colored vinyl then lay out the job on a 24"x? sign blank and charge per linear foot. I did it for years that way. Nest everything in that box and double up your sq ft charge. If it is Intricate charge more based on time weeding. If it is really intricate add more because it will always take you longer to adjust your plotter and compensate for mistakes when weeding.

 

[Justin]

While I might charge by the square inch or foot, that would only be a shortcut based on having calculated the time and materials enough times to be able to mentally adjust for it. So for example, I might charge $8 a square foot for 3" letters on HP cast vinyl in Helvetica Medium and I might charge $15 a square foot for .75" Times New Roman on the same vinyl. Simply charging by the square foot with no allowance for differences in difficulty (AKA time needed) is not something I would do.

There is also the matter of the dollar size of the order. I would charge more per foot for half a foot than I would charge for 100 square feet.

Thanks for replying. I understand charging less if doing more, and such.. I guess really what I am getting at is say someone randomly wants a superman logo(i know the whole copyright spill this is just an example.) at 13" wide.. Do you charge/calculate cost for 13.5" wide of material, or for the width(let's say 24"), or only 13.5"?

 

[J Hill Designs]

I would charge for material used + wasted (so full 24" in your example) but that would still fit in my shop minimum, so $65

 

[Fred Weiss]

Seriously? I'm being honest. People around here would think your crazy for that, and you'd be put out of business for not having business.

But even then, the real question I have is do you charge by square foot for that 1" L, or square inch, and do you calculate the charge based on say a square around that 1", or for the entire 24" width(or w/e) of the vinyl?

Seriously, and to echo an earlier post, forget the material, charge actual used or charge for the entire piece. It is a small difference. What you have to determine is:

• How much do I need to charge for my labor?
• What is the minimum for which I can do a job profitably?
• How many hours per day am I actually getting paid for?

You are concerning yourself over pennies and, apparently, not thinking about the dollars. There is nothing more important or even close to having a tested and true shop rate along with enough experience to know how long any job will take.

As you go through life my son
Whatever be your goal.
Keep your eye upon the doughnut,
And not upon the hole.

Mayflower Doughnut Shop, Washington, D.C.

 

[Justin]

I'm not defending him, but...
I am more on here to talk about the business in a social environment that was unavailable just a few years ago. I don't think anyone thinks they "know everything"
I have only been here a little over a month and I have seen at least 4 threads almost identical to this one.

I understand the people around here get tired of answering some of the same questions, and seeing the same threads, but honestly that really is the nature of forums especially one where you'd think newbies learning would be to learn the basics+advanced skills. I don't know how many forums or online communities you all have been on but it seems like this type of attitude occurs everywhere when it's the same "old timers" responding to the threads whether it's trucks, signs, programming, or what have you.

 

[tsgstl]

I understand the people around here get tired of answering some of the same questions, and seeing the same threads, but honestly that really is the nature of forums especially one where you'd think newbies learning would be to learn the basics+advanced skills. I don't know how many forums or online communities you all have been on but it seems like this type of attitude occurs everywhere when it's the same "old timers" responding to the threads whether it's trucks, signs, programming, or what have you.

concider it payment for the wealth of knowledge YOU ARE getting