Question How many of you have had this happen..........??

[Gino]

no, it would say vinyl $$, install $$$, Tax $$$ and if it was designed, $$$$.

Nope, this is what they get. It's been working for quite a long time. In fact, it worked with this transaction being discussed right here in this thread. It's their end they can't get together. They have no problem with me. They were trying to let me out of their internal problems. Most of our die-cut jobs the design is included in the quote. I just don't itemize that either.

So, what's the real problem here, huh ?? I did nothing wrong. I didn't break any laws. I didn't do anything underhandedly. I accepted the payment for a vehicle that didn't show up, but on their end, not mine. I deposited the check, actually, I cashed it. Why do I need to return something when our terms are 50% down and payment upon completion ?? They paid in advance, which many companies do.

• When you buy something on the internet, do you pay in advance ??
• When you buy breakfast at the restaurant, do you pay upon leaving ??
• When you have your teeth cleaned, do you pay at the end of the visit ??
• If you order seat covers for your vehicle at the store, do you pay in advance ??

 

[Marlene]

well nothing was done, nothing completed. they received nothing. the fact that they paid in advance only means they they expected to have something done for that money but their own guys messed up. will you letter their truck once they do come in for the money you all ready have been paid to do that or will you charge them again? not saying you are evil or wrong just wondering why you'd keep their money and give them nothing in return. can't compare to eating breakfast. and yes, when I buy online I do pay in advance as that's how that works. they get money and get something. if I cancel, I get my money back as the deal didn't go thru as planned, who cares why

 

[Gino]

Where in the world did you read I was not gonna give them anything in return ??

I did tell them, if they cancel one more time, I will charge them in addition for another vehicle. Regardless of having our people busy or not doing their vehicles or other jobs, they are in fact stealing my time. It was all set up. Times, colors, layouts, methods and anything else..... it was all spelled out. Their not having control over their own people has no bearing on the payment method. They have goofed, not once, not twice, but about 4 times. How is that wrong for me to keep their money til they come in, but with an ultimatum that I will add additional costs, if they break the appointment one more time. They've been warned by their people numerous times. Didn't work, so I made the the deal breaker. They either show up...... or their people or whomever pays additional charges.

In all fairness to you, Marlene, and anyone else here or wherever...... It is my business, my rules and my call on how I run things. I don't hafta be fair in your eyes or Trump's eyes or anyone else. I am looking out for me, mine, my employees and my business. They all come first and someone purposely trying to screw with me, will eventually pay the price of doing business with us....... or not. They have one more chance.

Why do so many here, say, ahh, you should get a deposit and this won't happen. So, I got a deposit of the full amount and it's still happening. How is this wrong ?? Please, if you can, please do, but remember, make sense about it. Don't let emotions or pigheadedness get in the way.

 

[Bigdawg]

Yeah. We've had it happen with the same customer a few time. And we bill them for the vinyl plus a small PITA charge and if they've paid... we refund the difference.

I'm curious as to what the wording above the signature says. Does it say any upfront payment is considered a deposit and will not be refunded?

 

[Johnny Best]

Gino, your low on your headache crap cost (line #6 on your quotation) being only $75, you need to raise that.

 

[equippaint]

Weve had similar issues with selling trucks. People will come in, want it, put down a deposit and then come back and say they changed their mind. Typically it's sorry for your luck. We have a season when we sell most of our machines and once it passes they sit. So if we take one off the market, it hurts us. Now if they came back later down the road in a reasonable amount of time, I would apply the deposit to another truck out of good faith. I'm not here to rip anyone off but I am not doing this to lose money either. If you can get your deposit back, what is the point of having a deposit at all? If its a major hardship or some other circumstance then itd be different.

I think in Gino's case, maybe have a deposit and a scheduling fee. Its easier to explain the actual cost associated with missing an appointment. On the other hand, if you had to reschedule a doctors appointment for some sort of issue you had and they charged you for it every time, Id venture to say that you'd be mad as well.

Personally we dont take appointments for this reason. I tell people we are always busy and people never show up when they are supposed to. So bring it when you can and once its sitting here, we will put it on the schedule. I found that way keeps our workload even. When we used to try and keep to a schedule, itd be a roller coaster.

 

[Gino]

Yeah. We've had it happen with the same customer a few time. And we bill them for the vinyl plus a small PITA charge and if they've paid... we refund the difference.

I'm curious as to what the wording above the signature says. Does it say any upfront payment is considered a deposit and will not be refunded?

Nope. It just mentions our name and address and the legal mumbo-jumbo about rights to the designs and the per annum bullcrap for late payments. We still hafta put that in although hardly anyone gets terms except well established accounts. Up in the top is where the terms are stated.

I don't think I need to say any of that at this point. If they have accepted the terms and can't get here, because of their own dumbness..... I don't see why I hafta reimburse them the money they paid me to do a job. Was the job performed ?? Nope, not yet. Once they get here, it will be.

So, do you think I need to tell them when they pay to have something done, I will give their money back if they can't show up after 4 or 5 times ?? Wouldn't that be considered breaking my own contract and not a normal way of doing business ??

 

[Gino]

Weve had similar issues with selling trucks. People will come in, want it, put down a deposit and then come back and say they changed their mind. Typically it's sorry for your luck. We have a season when we sell most of our machines and once it passes they sit. So if we take one off the market, it hurts us. Now if they came back later down the road in a reasonable amount of time, I would apply the deposit to another truck out of good faith. I'm not here to rip anyone off but I am not doing this to lose money either. If you can get your deposit back, what is the point of having a deposit at all? If its a major hardship or some other circumstance then itd be different.

I think in Gino's case, maybe have a deposit and a scheduling fee. Its easier to explain the actual cost associated with missing an appointment. On the other hand, if you had to reschedule a doctors appointment for some sort of issue you had and they charged you for it every time, Id venture to say that you'd be mad as well.

Personally we dont take appointments for this reason. I tell people we are always busy and people never show up when they are supposed to. So bring it when you can and once its sitting here, we will put it on the schedule. I found that way keeps our workload even. When we used to try and keep to a schedule, itd be a roller coaster.

Yowsa....... We hafta schedule. We had 9 vehicles scheduled this week alone, [less the guy who didn't show], plus lotsa sign work, design work and installations. I can't just tell someone to drop off their vehicle and we'll get to it when we get to it. Sometimes, these people need to get them back on the road as soon as possible. we had 6 last week and it looks like 5 next week.

 

[Bigdawg]

So, do you think I need to tell them when they pay to have something done, I will give their money back if they can't show up after 4 or 5 times ?? Wouldn't that be considered breaking my own contract and not a normal way of doing business ??

I guess we see it differently. Your stated terms say 50%... so I believe you would be justified in keeping the 50% deposit. Totally. Where we disagree is when you keep the whole thing for work not performed. No vinyl cut. No labor used. Inconvenient? Yes. But unless you say in your "legal mumbo-jumbo" that any payment is considered a deposit, I think you are in the wrong as far as normal course of business and your "contract."

If I make an appt with my doc and don't keep it - I get charged $50... not the $250 the visit would have cost me.
If I order breakfast - but they haven't made it yet - and have to leave... they are only going to charge me for what I consumed (drinks... maybe an appetizer)
If I order custom seat covers to be installed - but don't have them do the installation because I wrecked the car... I expect to pay for the covers, but not the install.

The internet one I'm not responding to because that isn't the same thing at all. And I can generally cancel the order if it hasn't shipped.

You have the right to run your business any way you please and I'm not telling you how to. I just don't think it is the right way to handle the situation.

 

[Gino]

I guess we see it differently. Your stated terms say 50%... so I believe you would be justified in keeping the 50% deposit. Totally. Where we disagree is when you keep the whole thing for work not performed. No vinyl cut. No labor used. Inconvenient? Yes. But unless you say in your "legal mumbo-jumbo" that any payment is considered a deposit, I think you are in the wrong as far as normal course of business and your "contract."

If I make an appt with my doc and don't keep it - I get charged $50... not the $250 the visit would have cost me.
If I order breakfast - but they haven't made it yet - and have to leave... they are only going to charge me for what I consumed (drinks... maybe an appetizer)
If I order custom seat covers to be installed - but don't have them do the installation because I wrecked the car... I expect to pay for the covers, but not the install.

The internet one I'm not responding to because that isn't the same thing at all. And I can generally cancel the order if it hasn't shipped.

You have the right to run your business any way you please and I'm not telling you how to. I just don't think it is the right way to handle the situation.

Evidently, you missed the part where I said, she didn't send a deposit. Does the guy have the check for the full amount and she said, oops, I'll over-night the check for you. I got the check and no one showed up. She didn't even know the guy didn't show up or contact me about anything. She's more upset than me. In fact, at this point, I got the money, I ain't upset at all.

I'm not disagreeing with you.... or anyone else. I have my methods.... and you work for someone who has other ideas. Perhaps when any of you who actually own and finance a business, pay employees, taxes, overhead and so many other costs and have all the headaches of keeping your doors open for 45 years, you'll see it a little differently. For those who have experienced this kinda boneheaded way of my customer of saying one thing, doing another and not know what the left hand is saying to the right hand.... I guess y'all can deal with that. However, if it happens too much, it can hurt someone. It has never hurt us, as far as I know, but it sure won't in any future for us.
If you allow this sort of action, it can only get worse. People will walk all over you. Here, no one walks over us except our really good customers. I bend over backwards for them, but not some douche who can't get their truck here once in two weeks. I don't have time for birdbrains like that, but money is money and I will take their money, if they're handing it out.

So, what other scenarios can y'all come up with for me giving money away ??

 

[Gino]

If I make an appt with my doc and don't keep it - I get charged $50... not the $250 the visit would have cost me.
I didn't say that, did I ?? I said you pay before you leave.... at time of appointment. I didn't say cancel out
If I order breakfast - but they haven't made it yet - and have to leave... they are only going to charge me for what I consumed (drinks... maybe an appetizer)
I didn't say that, either. I said you pay for it when you leave. Nothing about walking out.
If I order custom seat covers to be installed - but don't have them do the installation because I wrecked the car... I expect to pay for the covers, but not the install.
I said to place the order for seat covers, nothing abut installing them. Anyone can put a set of seat covers on their car.
The internet one I'm not responding to because that isn't the same thing at all. And I can generally cancel the order if it hasn't shipped.
Again, to place the order, you must pay in advance.

Now, if you wanna play games and walk out of an office visit or someone making your breakfast or whatever else you had someone commence doing and then change your mind, that's worse in my book then someone owning up to the contract.

So, if someone is having something performed and they pay in advance, don't make it, but gonna come back.... why send the money back ?? They are gonna get it done, but if they f*ck up one more time.... I am charging for it..... As you said 'the inconvenience' thing. Is it a lot, yep, but I'll bet they won't do it to me again, huh ??

The problem is, there are too many crybabies who wanna change their mind because they didn't make a good decision the first time around and the poor store owners are supposed to keep things aside, warm, clean or whatever and just say..... oh, you f*cked up..... here honey, here's your money back. Now, run along and be a good little boy/girl. yeah, that'll teach someone integrity and business.

 

[fresh]

Just an FYI, EVEN IF YOU HAVE A CONTRACT, if someone pays the deposit on a credit card, then changes their mind and decides to do a charge-back, you will be SOL. You can prove that you did work, you can have a paper trail, it doesn't matter, the customer is always right when it comes to credit card charge backs.

And Gino, you asked if this happened to anyone. So no, I've never taken full payment and then threatened my customer with an additional charge if they missed their appointment again. This whole scenario is a non-issue and really doesn't anything positive to this community. Your customer wasn't even asking for a refund, they want their truck lettered. Why even bring it up? Who cares? There is not a single person here who hasn't had a client who needed to reschedule multiple times. Whoop ti do.

 

[Gino]

My scenario wasn't a credit card. That was just an example of some lowly person who goes around ordering things and then backs out and wants their money back.

So, you've never been paid in advance by anyone ?? Again, your comprehension is rather very askew. It didn't happen once or twice, but about 5 times with in 2 or 3 weeks.

I'm glad it never happened to you. You must be proud of yourself, huh ??

Whoop ti do to you for chiming in again, if this is so non-issue to you. Evidently, it struck home with you on some level.

As for your statement about not being positive to the community.... what has lately, in your illustrious eyes ??

​

 

[hcardwell93]

I don't understand the assumption that vinyl wasn't cut. Who waits until the customer shows up to start making graphics for it? That's terribly inefficient.

 

[Gino]

I/we have never pre-cut vinyl for any new customer or if I don't know what kinda truck is coming in. We have plenty of repeat customers who we can easily do that ahead of time, but for this particular customer, all I know is a second truck is coming in. To cut the entire job for this truck should take about 15 minutes to set up and cut, 5 minutes or so to weed, another 2 to tape it and about 10 minutes to put it on. Nothing inefficient about it. Anyway, not for us. We almost always have a plotter open. For jobs which might take an hour or two to cut and weed, well, they cost more and I adjust my time slot accordingly.

Besides, like I said, we've had people come in the day of their appointment and say, can we change this to that or this made bigger or smaller ?? Sure, we have the technology. We can do anything.

If it's inefficient, we had 9 vehicles scheduled this week, with one cancelled and the other eight were just all here and we just finished up the last one about 1/2 hour ago. We also did some regular signs, some store signs, some hangers, some real estate signs, digital prints and believe it or not.... our flatbed is outta service this week. A switch welded shut and we're waiting for the part.

So efficient or not, we got enough accomplished with next week looking rather heavy again, because of playing catch-up with the flatbed.

Again, our shop is almost 9,000 sq ft and we have all kindsa jobs/projects in progress at almost any given time.