How many times do you forget about the take up reel (before it's too late)?

[tulsagraphics]

Hi guys,

You know the drill. Start a print, go do something else, come back later and find your print on the floor (past the point of no return).

Well, I got tired of throwing hundreds of $$$ in the trash each month, so I put my amateur electronics skills to work and built a small adjustable device that sits beneath the take up reel, has a programmable range finder (to keep it from detecting objects across the room), and a buzzer, all powered by a basic 9v adapter (or 9v battery). Think of it as a first rudimentary attempt.

When the material gets close to the floor, it trips the sensor and starts beeping. This alert tells me that I have probably around 30 seconds to get back in there and tape the vinyl to the take up core.

Problem solved! (It's hard to say how many thousands of $$$$ I've saved because I've never had a single print hit the floor in the past year -- ever since I started using it.)

Well, I thought this might be useful for other sign shops and printers, so I wanted to get everyone's opinion on something like this -- because I'm considering having it engineered by experts, adding more features (such as wireless notification lights, bluetooth connectivity for phone notifications, desktop alerts, options for firmware upgrades, etc. etc.). I would also be having it constructed by a reputable manufacturer. Obviously there are lots of costs in building something like this (R&D, electrical engineering, PCB manufacturing, housing, packaging, distribution, etc. etc.). The electronics themselves don't cost much, but there are some BIG upfront development costs to consider (i.e., 15k-20k investment -- including the use of contacts that I had from a previous job at a PCB board manufacturer)

So my big questions for you guys are:

• Would you be interested in this type of product? And,
• How much would you buy a product like this for?

Any suggestions/thoughts/criticisms are much appreciated!!

 

[player]

Sounds way too expensive to me.

Try making it like yours, a little more refined, but still basic and dirt cheap.

How much for that?

How much for the super duper one?

Another thing is patent it and license it to printer manufacturers before they add it to their existing reels.

 

[Desert_Signs]

Sounds way too expensive to me.

Try making it like yours, a little more refined, but still basic and dirt cheap.

How much for that?

How much for the super duper one?

Another thing is patent it and license it to printer manufacturers before they add it to their existing reels.

All of that. $25? I'd think a little, and then buy it.

$200 with all kinds of fancy ****, I wouldn't think at all, I'd walk right on by.

 

[GAC05]

If you keep an end roll with 3 or 4 feet of material left on it loaded onto your take-up reel you can tape the new print to it before starting the new job.
Might not work on all printers but I need a few inches sticking past the platen so the head does not catch on the free edge if it curls up.
Zero cost will be hard to compete with (for me).

wayne k
guam usa

 

[player]

That's what I do... I would find it hard to tape on while the print is advancing, and pausing a print can sometimes cause a band.

Do you guys pause it to tape it to the roll?

 

[Junkie]

Never Misses

Sounds kinda silly, but we use a kitchen timer you can buy anywhere for a couple a bucks. You can time it just about perfect for different materials, profile settings, etc after some testing. Sometimes it goes off too early for certain materials we may not print all the time like canvas, but never late. Been using it for years, always works.

 

[Red Ball]

If you keep an end roll with 3 or 4 feet of material left on it loaded onto your take-up reel you can tape the new print to it before starting the new job.
Might not work on all printers but I need a few inches sticking past the platen so the head does not catch on the free edge if it curls up.
Zero cost will be hard to compete with (for me).

wayne k
guam usa

This is what we do.

 

[tulsagraphics]

Estimated price

Sounds way too expensive to me.

Try making it like yours, a little more refined, but still basic and dirt cheap.

How much for that?

How much for the super duper one?

Another thing is patent it and license it to printer manufacturers before they add it to their existing reels.

My initial thought was aiming for a price point of about $49-59/ea.:

Basic features would probably include:

• adjustable range finder (to accommodate different environments)
• adjustable pitch of the piezo buzzer (or adjustable volume if using a mini-speaker)
• including warranty

A basic design like this greatly reduces my up-front development costs, which is certainly more appealing.

For comparison, if I develop one that has "all" the bells n' whistles (mentioned in my first post), it would probably raise the price point to about $99.
(in either case, I'd probably need to sell around 200 to 300 units to break even -- and that might be tricky -- hard to say at this point)

Thanks for the input!

(I'll see if I can round up a video of my prototype in action)

 

[Gene@mpls]

I was just thinking about this yesterday, actually. Does it look anything like this?

 

[tulsagraphics]

I was just thinking about this yesterday, actually. Does it look anything like this?

My prototype uses an ultrasonic rangefinder. I looked into many types of sensors when building the prototype (including the one you mentioned), and the ultrasonic rangefinder was the only one that had the capacity for reliable distance measuring (necessary for my programming method).

Here's the thing: Most sensors detect objects at a maximum range at all times, which means a lot of false triggers without additional programming (hint: the infrared ones have a very short detection range).

For example, the ultrasonic range finder that I'm using can detect distance up to about 30 feet away (although not very useful if it's beeping at every object in the room, such as the opposing wall or work table), so what I'm doing is programming (in the firmware) a way to detect and report the distance of whatever the sensor is finding -- but it only emits a beep (at the specified intervals and frequency I programmed into the firmware) -- and for my prototype, I programmed it with a maximum detection range of about 22".

Here's a quick video of my prototype in action:

http://youtu.be/BGT4dUJi1C4

 

[player]

Nice work. I can't help thinking this already exists though. Not for vinyl perhaps, but it's out there.

 

[tulsagraphics]

Nice work. I can't help thinking this already exists though. Not for vinyl perhaps, but it's out there.

Thanks for the input. Yeah, I tried looking high and low for any type of device that might work for this (rather than me building it myself), but I simply couldn't find anything that didn't need to be hacked in some way or another.

Of course there's not much to it -- a lot of products on the market have all of these basic components (just not all in the same device, at least not that I have found). Granted, it's a difficult item to search for using keywords that would identify it (sensor, alarm, distance monitor, etc. etc.) because they are such generic search terms. That being said, I've sort of come to the conclusion this type of device doesn't exist - and if it does, it most likely doesn't have the key functionality --> an adjustable distance sensor and adjustable stand (so that it's only detecting what is in front of it -- by say, 6" to 20" -- rather than the entire room).

This thing has saved my butt so many times -- I have to say it's probably one of my favorite "tools" in the entire shop (trying not to be biased since I built it. lol)

Okay, so aside from all of that stuff -- I really like engineering and creating new (and useful things), especially electronics. So I'm really hoping this little device generates some interest (and maybe it would at a lower price point like $30 or 40). I guess we'll see!

Thanks again for the feedback!

 

[tulsagraphics]

I've done it before, but never have I thought I'd like to spend money on a device to remind me to tape it up. As already mentioned....egg timer works fine when needed.

I guess it may be more valuable for shops that can't see their printers, but then again there should always be someone in the area when sending down a job. You're usually only looking at a couple of minutes from print start to taping up anyways.

Good luck with the idea though!

Sounds like a good method -- I had not thought of that one.

In my personal experience, even when there are people in the production area, they don't always notice when the print is about to hit the floor -- maybe catching it 95% of the time, but that other 5% resulted in hundreds of dollars of waste per month ($10 here, $20 there).... and also my own fault because I get distracted by a phone call or customer or w/e. So I figured the $60 prototype (and programming it) was a pretty small investment in comparison. (I wonder why manufacturers don't already include these types of devices on their equipment?)

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[CreatedDesigns]

Why couldn't you just use a diffuse sensor or a laser sensor and a simple relay to control the alarm? And most Allen Bradley LED Lights and alarms are loud enough to be heard across most Factories.

 

[tulsagraphics]

Why couldn't you just use a diffuse sensor or a laser sensor and a simple relay to control the alarm? And most Allen Bradley LED Lights and alarms are loud enough to be heard across most Factories.

Nice idea! I'm going to research it.

 

[CreatedDesigns]

Not an idea just common knowledge for us PLC programmers. If I was to put sensors on the discharge of the printer I would use a timer as well that way when the sensor senses the media it would start your timer and when timer or timers (you could stage them) to maybe trigger warning light first then annoying alarm Second.

And make it as clean and factory like as possible Don't make it sit on the floor put it right under the discharge (that's what the timer is there for).

Most newer sensors are 12-24VDC now , Check Newark out for parts, also Grainger sells Omron stuff to now,

Banner, Turck, Omron, Allen Bradley, Sick..... the list goes on for Manufacturers' that make what you need