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How to get rid of media buckling when printing 98" or wider?

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F1225hgB42w

Guest
tylercrum said:
We obviously just got the printer a few months ago, so we've ONLY run the mosaic inks, so I don't have a 'comparison opinion'. But we like the Mosaic inks. We haven't really run into any colors that we NEEDED to get to that we couldn't (I am also a big proponent of managing customer expectations when it comes to digital colors vs offset spot colors....). No adhesion issues at all so far (we print on coro, foam, acm, paper, vinyl, mdo, aluminum, cardboard etc).
The shutters on the lamps are quieter than the printers I looked at in atlanta when I went for a demo, but like you said, it's kind of a non-issue. Everything in our shop is freaking loud, myself included, so the quiet shutters is like putting a silencer on a chainsaw...
We like the printer, we've had a couple little issues, but they've been all over it fixing them (and to be honest, I think the couple issues we've had were due to the third party we bought the printer from and not CET).
Click to expand...

Hi tylercrum -

Thanks for the info, we are considering switching to the Mosaic inks. We need two improvements out of the Mosaic inks:
- Adhesion on raw aluminum (we print signs for an art decor company and the aluminum we tried to print on the graphic peeled right off after it was laminated with MacTac LUV laminate.
- Flexibility, because we have a large art decor part to our business and we print tens of thousands of canvases a year and would like to be able to use a more durable UV ink (compared to a solvent or aqueous ink that require over-coating) but not have it crack when wrapping the corners of the canvas.

I'll wait to hear from CET - but if I don't hear today I'll call them tomorrow.

Thanks!
 
D

DougWestwood

New Member
Mesh laying flat on Vutek - try your vacuum settings

Hello All,

We have had the same Mesh/head streak problems.
We addressed it by LOWERING the Vutek vacuum setting to 35/100.
Also, we turn on the rear take-up reel in the opposite direction, which helps increase tension.
Yeah, I know, lowering the vacuum seems counter to the problem, but it works very well.

Maybe this will work for other machines, too.
God luck and please post results.
- Doug
Vancouver
 
F

F1225hgB42w

Guest
DougFastSignsVancouv said:
Hello All,

We have had the same Mesh/head streak problems.
We addressed it by LOWERING the Vutek vacuum setting to 35/100.
Also, we turn on the rear take-up reel in the opposite direction, which helps increase tension.
Yeah, I know, lowering the vacuum seems counter to the problem, but it works very well.

Maybe this will work for other machines, too.
God luck and please post results.
- Doug
Vancouver
Click to expand...

Hi Doug -

Thanks for the suggestion, I've toyed with the vacuum on the CET several times and get no real change in results. But thanks for the suggestions! Also, you have quite the equipment list!
 
F

F1225hgB42w

Guest
tylercrum said:
Anyone ever get a solution to this media buckling and bunching issue?
Click to expand...

tylercrum -

Yes and no. We had a CET tech fly out and spend a few days working on several issues/concerns we had. At the end we determined that the issue was just we would have material buckle when printing larger rolls.... Then we set up the auto belt adjuster to stop the belt from moving too much in one direction or the other (which was happening often), since then we've not had that issue IF we web up the banner material properly. Earlier this week i printed two banners that were 98" x 900" long and it ran perfectly (note this was scrim banner and not mesh, but we see similar results on the mesh). We've found the keys to getting the banner to run successfully are:

  • High vacuum settings - we use max vacuum for all zones on 98 and above + we mask off with masking tape/transfer tape any area not being covered by banner.
  • Back tension setting of 3 on the CET (we web up around the dancer bar as well)
  • Front take up tension of 4 on the CET
  • TAKE EXTRA TIME TO MAKE SURE THE BANNER MATERIAL IS FEEDING IN PERFECTLY SQUARE ON THE BELT - THIS IS CRITICAL

The last point is the most important part of the setup. We've found that if we are even an 1/8" off square, it will buckle and head strike!

Our most recent issues are now with the mesh banner itself separating from it's release liner BEFORE printing... The release liner holds perfect to the vacuum, but the banner above the release liner buckles and can head strike. We are using Ultraflex Strip Mesh Plus but are trying to find a different manufacturer to replace that material with that doesn't have this problem.

Thanks!
 
S

StevenGC

New Member
I was going to say, if it's not perfectly square, you're going to buckle. I print 63" scrim on our H1625 and try to have it within 1/32" unless I'm printing a single banner or two. If I don't, it'll buckle but it'll also walk left or right depending on which way it's off and there really isn't much margin for error on long runs. 1/8" after 10 feet turns into 1/2" or more. They've added a roller bar to ours almost two years ago that smooths out roll material just before the vacuum platen which helps a lot. I wish I could print 98" wide
 
F

F1225hgB42w

Guest
tylercrum said:
We obviously just got the printer a few months ago, so we've ONLY run the mosaic inks, so I don't have a 'comparison opinion'. But we like the Mosaic inks. We haven't really run into any colors that we NEEDED to get to that we couldn't (I am also a big proponent of managing customer expectations when it comes to digital colors vs offset spot colors....). No adhesion issues at all so far (we print on coro, foam, acm, paper, vinyl, mdo, aluminum, cardboard etc).
The shutters on the lamps are quieter than the printers I looked at in atlanta when I went for a demo, but like you said, it's kind of a non-issue. Everything in our shop is freaking loud, myself included, so the quiet shutters is like putting a silencer on a chainsaw...
We like the printer, we've had a couple little issues, but they've been all over it fixing them (and to be honest, I think the couple issues we've had were due to the third party we bought the printer from and not CET).
Click to expand...


tylercrum -

Have you still not had any issues with the Mosaic inks? We've been trying to upgrade to the Mosaic inks but CET has cancelled the upgrade for the foreseeable future due to problems they are having with the inks... Are you running the Ricoh heads or are you running the Kyocera heads? I'm not sure what issues they are having but I'd assume it's mostly clogging heads. I hope to get to a more permanent ink soon so I can make my final profiles and not worry about being forced to upgrade in the future!

Thanks!
 
ChrisN

ChrisN

New Member
DSGI said:
tylercrum -

Have you still not had any issues with the Mosaic inks? We've been trying to upgrade to the Mosaic inks but CET has cancelled the upgrade for the foreseeable future due to problems they are having with the inks... Are you running the Ricoh heads or are you running the Kyocera heads? I'm not sure what issues they are having but I'd assume it's mostly clogging heads. I hope to get to a more permanent ink soon so I can make my final profiles and not worry about being forced to upgrade in the future!

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Our dealer actually switched a brand new printer back to the 96 series ink because the Mosaic white ink was too yellow. This was several months ago, and since then they have changed the white formulation to make a whiter ink - even whiter than the 96 series from what I've seen. I'm getting some samples made, so we'll see how they compare to the 96 series shortly.

I don't know if there are any other issues, though - the white ink is the only problem I've heard of. I'm interested in switching for the better cure off of the printer. Right now, light colors are slightly tacky and will smear if you aren't careful in handling the prints. This is a particular problem for our flatbed cutter, since the material hold-down foot can smear the ink while cutting. The Mosaic ink seems to have a much better cure straight off the printer, with less or no tackiness.
 
T

tylercrum

New Member
DSGI said:
tylercrum -

Have you still not had any issues with the Mosaic inks? We've been trying to upgrade to the Mosaic inks but CET has cancelled the upgrade for the foreseeable future due to problems they are having with the inks... Are you running the Ricoh heads or are you running the Kyocera heads? I'm not sure what issues they are having but I'd assume it's mostly clogging heads. I hope to get to a more permanent ink soon so I can make my final profiles and not worry about being forced to upgrade in the future!

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Still no issues here with the mosaic inks. We have the Ricoh heads. We print mon-fri, sometimes saturdays, roughly 4-5 hours a day. No clogging or anything. We run straight CMYK, no white, no light colors. No adhesion issues that I've seen. The only real issues we've had with the printer is the wider material buckling...and a few user errors.
 
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Andy_warp

New Member
We run a dye sub machine, so to transfer paper, then calendar heat set to fabric. I am in the Seattle area as well, and have found I HAVE to wrap the remaining paper in shrink wrap within minutes of printing...or it takes on moisture and prints like crap. The nature of the transfer paper is to accept aqueous ink, so it is very prone to sucking up humidity. Given the huge amount of material surface area being exposed on these larger rolls...it makes all the difference.

I use 74" rolls for my proofing, and I can leave it just sitting out until the cows come home with little to no issue. The same paper from the same manufacturer gives me fits at 126" if not "controlled"
 
F

F1225hgB42w

Guest
tylercrum said:
Still no issues here with the mosaic inks. We have the Ricoh heads. We print mon-fri, sometimes saturdays, roughly 4-5 hours a day. No clogging or anything. We run straight CMYK, no white, no light colors. No adhesion issues that I've seen. The only real issues we've had with the printer is the wider material buckling...and a few user errors.
Click to expand...

Hi Tylercrum -

Okay, thanks. We run CMYKlclm with Ricoh heads and hope to upgrade soon so I'll call CET and see if we can get this going (white ink is of little value to me - we have three other printers that print white and we sell maybe one job every few months that requires white). The machine works great and I'm very happy with it over all, we are moving to Caldera as we have too many issue with Onyx. Thanks for your response!
 
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