How to mount pylon sign?

[biggmann]

We have a plan on building a 16ft high pylon sign and are stuck as how to mount the top sign and we need to figure this out in order to quote the job. We want to put a 10 foot wide by 6 foot high box on top of two 8 inch steel post. My question is how would you mount the top box? We have a couple ideas, one is to run the poles all the way through the sign box and the other is to cap the post and bolt the bottom of the sign to the top of the post, my fear this way is the wind force. Ill attach a picture of the design and you can see what we are thinking.



We need to attach the top box to these poles or have the poles run up through the box itself. Thoughts?

 

[Mosh]

I would run the poles through...or do what the engineer who signs off on it says to do.

 

[J Hill Designs]

do what the engineer who signs off on it says to do.

 

[MikePro]

poles-thru or not, doesn't matter BUT they are both two different types of construction.
something that big would definitely require an engineer's-stamp, whichever way you go about it:

poles "not-thru" requires match-plates welded to poletops/bottom of sign, bolted together at time of install, as well as additional steel framework inside of the sign cabinet. best-way, imho.

poles-thru requires less internal steel-structure, and no match-plates, BUT looks awful when illuminated unless you add a TON more lights/diffusers to keep the poles from showing through your sign faces as dark spots.

 

[Signsforwhile]

Match plate or pole through are essentially the same thing. Match plate is easier to install if done right in my opinion.

With match plate you still need columns inside that act as your through pole. Quick sketch attached.





Whatever you do you should most definitely without a doubt have an engineer stamp it.
Reach out to http://www.murdochengineering.com/ they'll help you out.

 

[synergy_jim]

+1 on talking to an engineer and typically we run the poles through.

 

[petrosgraphics]

engineer this thing! *match plates work very well you can use a slightly smaller diameter pipe inside sign cabinet. if your plan is to run pipes thru sign cab.,
are the pipes existing or new, you are going to need more space between the side of cabinet and pipe. ( need room for lamps).

 

[Z SIGNS]

We have a plan on building a 16ft high pylon sign and are stuck as how to mount the top sign and we need to figure this out in order to quote the job. We want to put a 10 foot wide by 6 foot high box on top of two 8 inch steel post. My question is how would you mount the top box? We have a couple ideas, one is to run the poles all the way through the sign box and the other is to cap the post and bolt the bottom of the sign to the top of the post, my fear this way is the wind force. Ill attach a picture of the design and you can see what we are thinking.

View attachment 98257

We need to attach the top box to these poles or have the poles run up through the box itself. Thoughts?

If it was our project and building from scratch we would do poles through the box with a pole pocket at the top of the cabinet.

This simplifies fabrication,delivery and installation. A lot.
Why have any more moving parts than you need?

Just follow the rules of illumination when designing your cabinet.
Research this info it's out there.

Yes the matching plate thingy has it's place on large scale projects like 10 center poles sign for a chain of stores or when reach is a concern.

But for a one off why bother?

We only use the match plate when we have to like in a retro fit.

If you really want to know more about this go investigate similar installations and read stuff like this http://www.amazon.com/Sign-Structures-Foundations-Designers-Estimators/dp/0911380655

And once you really get into it you can go here http://www.engexp.com/home/calculators/calc.php?swf=sign.swf&xml=si.xml
I'm not an engineer but shootin from the hip your going to need a BFH on that size sign.

Yeah the poles almost always go through the sign and yeah you need an engineer.Yeah you have to do home work.

Happy pyloning

 

[player]

Be careful about who you use as an engineer. I have hired them before and got back ridiculous over engineered specs... They have to have lots of actual sign engineering experience or you will pay way too much for a sign that will cost way too much to build, and will weigh too much.

One guy after he over spec'd a sign I gave him a copy of a sign engineering book and he found it to be very useful.

 

[Kottwitz-Graphics]

Have you ever built anything like that before?

It doesn't sound like it. Have you thought about the crane your going to need to lift the sign into position? Do you have a plan to dig ( or drill ) the foundation? Do you have the insurance to cover you in the odd chance that it fails?

I recommend calling someone that has done it before and sub it out to them.

 

[player]

If you want to build them you have to make the first one...

 

[biggmann]

We have built signs like this before but always had the poles on the outside, as far as digging the holes we have a company and have a crane to put the sign up. This is the first time we have built one of this style but there is a first time for everything, we have all the equipment we need just need the best way to do it.

 

[DigiPrinter]

Have you ever built anything like that before?

It doesn't sound like it. Have you thought about the crane your going to need to lift the sign into position? Do you have a plan to dig ( or drill ) the foundation? Do you have the insurance to cover you in the odd chance that it fails?

I recommend calling someone that has done it before and sub it out to them.

I was thinking the same thing when I read the original post. It doesn't sound like the OP has any experience in the fabrication or installation world. If that is the case, OP, hire someone for this project to show you how and what needs to be done. The you have to start somewhere in my opinion is not an option when something like this could fall over and kill someone....there has to be a basic (and greater) understanding of how pylon signs are constructed and installed.

There are a lot of variables to install this sign that have to be planned where the experience of someone who has done this before can guide you through it (not on a forum site). There's digging of the foundation, running electrical, getting your double poles set just right, rebar cages (if the engineer needs them), lifting the cabinets into place, tack welding cabinets to the poles and more.

Be safe and spend a few bucks to hire someone with experience.....

 

[FS-Keith]

Somehow I doubt your company has people on staff that "have built signs like this before but always had the poles on the outside"

But they cant figure out standard industry practices to mount a sign on top of poles?

This is one of those instances to where if you have to ask then you shouldn't be doing it.

 

[Stanton]

...do what the engineer who signs off on it says to do.

Uh... right.

What kind of burg town allows you to guess at engineering?

Don't answer, I lived in Little Rock for five months.