How to quote signage

[bpp]

We are a full-fledged print shop and also print plenty wide format, foam, ACM, acrylic etc in house with a big customer base. One of our customers reached out for signage for their storefront. I am thinking this is a good opportunity to get into this area. What do I need to know, how do I know if I should quote with acrylic or aluminum etc. From talking to some sign guys one told me don't touch acrylic even .5 inch it can crack another guy told me you can use acrylic but make sure it's at least 0.5 in, which makes sense to me. It is 48 in high and about 150 in wide. Also how do I quote do I need to give a mock-up? Or just discuss with them what we are doing and put that in writing?
Thanks

 

[bpp]

We are a full-fledged print shop and also print plenty wide format, foam, ACM, acrylic etc in house with a big customer base. One of our customers reached out for signage for their storefront. I am thinking this is a good opportunity to get into this area. What do I need to know, how do I know if I should quote with acrylic or aluminum etc. From talking to some sign guys one told me don't touch acrylic even .5 inch it can crack another guy told me you can use acrylic but make sure it's at least 0.5 in, which makes sense to me. It is 48 in high and about 150 in wide. Also how do I quote do I need to give a mock-up? Or just discuss with them what we are doing and put that in writing?
Thanks

I plan on outsourcing the acrylic as well as the installation

 

[Bxtr]

First check into local codes, sign permits. This will determine the size of your sign

 

[Gino]

According to your profile, which you give NO information about you or the business and by the content of your questions........ you nor your company are at all qualified to do this in any sense at any point.

 

[bpp]

What makes me pass your qualification test?

 

[Gino]

First, you can easily see they are not my qualifications, but those of the site registration. Care to skip them, be my guest, but I'm done answering wannabee questions.

* Try filling in your profile , so those of us who use it, can find some things out about you and your company.
* Try to put into understandable words your questions and present yourself as someone needing these requests.

What you have written so far is just a buncha gibberish making so sense whatsoever.

 

[John_Smith]

If you are a full-fledged print shop, and you are doing quite well with your big customer base, Why do you want to enter a market where you have to outsource substrates and installation ??
To me, it makes more sense to do as much "in-house" as possible to keep the profits "in-house".
We would still like to know more about your business. You have any photos of your shop or work area to share with us?

 

[bpp]

I’ve updated my profile, if that helps

To be honest, outdoor signage is outside my current comfort zone. Once I gain more experience and have enough projects, I can hire my own installation team. Right now, our offerings are simpler: print and cut materials like acrylic, ACM, aluminum, cardstock, and plenty of foam core.

I have a question about a customer request for outdoor signage. The mockup shows dimensions of 195" by 48" with thin lettering. I got quotes from local suppliers, and one said no to acrylic, offering $3,400 for .25" painted aluminum, while another quoted $3,500 for .5" acrylic. In comparison, Gemini is offering .5 black acrylic for $1,200 delivered, making it look like there's room for markup, and I won't profit from the installation.

Does that make sense? I can’t handle a 195" sign in-house, and I’m not familiar with the stud options for installation.

How do you typically provide estimates? Should I offer a mockup for the customer as well?

P.S. In small format we have over 20 KM, Xerox, Canon, 5 cutters many finishers MGI spot UV to name a few

 

[JBurton]

Should I offer a mockup for the customer as well?

Always... I guess coming from primarily printing, mockups can get your work ripped out from under ya, but in the 'real world' signage, if you and your customer can't agree on placement for letters on a picture of their building, you'll never get them to agree to pay for said letters, because "you put them in the wrong spot."
Gemini is the way to go obviously, is it installing direct to the building wall?
Is it permissible by the city/county? Don't order anything unless you know nobody will force the customer to take it down.
Do you have any and all licensing your city/state may require? If not, does your sub?
Of the companies you got quotes from, are they likely to snipe your customer? May save yourself the headache if they've already approached them...
At any rate, draw it up, find a sub, pick his brain for permitting if he's on the up and up, go watch the install (or offer to help), learn something new, make new money!

 

[John_Smith]

When you say "mock up" - I guess I am too O'Skool to think of a computer printed photo.
I think of an actual piece of plastic and the paper "photo" of all the elements glued to it. Something the customer can hold in his hands. Assuming this huge "panel" will be attached to a building?? I'm having a problem with that.
If you can, could you post your "mock-up" here so we can better understand your project?

 

[DarkerKat]

That's a pretty large sign to use as an opportunity to dip your toes into signage. If it is a good client and this is really outside of your comfort range being honest and turning it down is not always the worst thing you could do.
Acrylic VS Aluminum is going to come down to where it is being installed and how thin that "thin text" is - working with an outside sign installer, aluminum is a safer bet, less likely to crack if the studs are threaded poorly and wont shatter if it falls during install. Gemini is pretty solid and will provide stud templates for install that plenty of installers will be used to working with.
We generally stay away from making mockups/proofs/shop drawings of anything without quote approval unless it's a repeat customer. But this is your first signage job, and you'll probably end up doing some of it at a loss, might mean repeat business but it's a learning opportunity. If the client provided a mock up already I would quote off that and wait for approval before providing anything else. If you're talking about a physical mockup (like a print on cheap material for scale/placement) - those are typically only going to be provided if the client requests it, or if there is some complicating factor about the install.
Company I work for started as a print shop and got into signage just because a client asked us if we made tactile signs, so I respect the hustle, but it is a bumpy road ahead.

ok now the old guard can go back to beating you up

 

[John_Smith]

Another thought on what Kat touched on about providing "your" shop drawings.
Do you have this clause in your Estimate/Proposal contract?

 

[weyandsign]

On second thought, yeah leave it up to someone that knows what they're doing.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

We are a full-fledged print shop and also print plenty wide format, foam, ACM, acrylic etc in house with a big customer base. One of our customers reached out for signage for their storefront. I am thinking this is a good opportunity to get into this area. What do I need to know, how do I know if I should quote with acrylic or aluminum etc. From talking to some sign guys one told me don't touch acrylic even .5 inch it can crack another guy told me you can use acrylic but make sure it's at least 0.5 in, which makes sense to me. It is 48 in high and about 150 in wide. Also how do I quote do I need to give a mock-up? Or just discuss with them what we are doing and put that in writing?
Thanks

It's probably best to pass this lead along to another sign shop, and in return ask them for referrals to things you do well. Your question makes little sense and it wouldn't be safe trying to suggest materials for things you have zero experience with. If you really want to get into the sign business, hire someone from the industry and hope you can recognize if they're good or not.

 

[Gino]

It's rather evident, you just bought your way into the sign industry and just bought a lotta machines. Good for you and that you're moving along at a good speed. However, tackling things you have no clue about how to quote, where to get, how to make or instal is not a very good business move. Should something go wrong, you'll be lost. Getting your feet wet on a forum of this nature is not a good idea, as you have NO idea if other people are guessing or talking from experience. Farm it out and ask them, if you can come and watch while it's being made properly.... meaning you need to find a good reputable company to do the work.

Kinda sounds like a hamburger joint and they wanna open up longer hours and serve pancakes, but nobody knows anything about them, wrong equipment and nothing to properly serve them in, let alone a seating area to sit down and eat them hot off the flattop.

 

[visual800]

are you talking about using .5" acrylic for a backgrund?... If so dont do that. Use .5" pvs or .25" max metals you also need to show us a mock up of the sign so we can better direct you

 

[pro-UP]

Providing free art or mockups without a contract is not recommended. The work you provide without a contract potentially will end up in someone else's hands. They will be able to beat your quote as you have graciously done the majority of the concept art and scope definition for them. It's a great way to go broke making friends.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Providing free art or mockups without a contract is not recommended. The work you provide without a contract potentially will end up in someone else's hands. They will be able to beat your quote as you have graciously done the majority of the concept art and scope definition for them. It's a great way to go broke making friends.

Have you ever hustled or owned a small sign shop trying to make it? I did up front art with bids all the time starting out. Rarely was it copied and used elsewhere. You do what you can to get the business when you're new and trying to make a name for yourself. Now that I'm established, I don't have to do that.

 

[Johnny Best]

Sounds like bpp wants to expand into making signs. Has no design skills because of no moke up provided. Has been working producing signs sent to him to set up for printing and cutting for big companies. No experience in sign making but wanting to get himself into something else where he csn breath fresh air during the day instead of the monotonus day of getting artwork. Setting it up to print and cut.
I applaud bpp for wanting to better himself, donʼt know if signs is going to do it, it is a lesrning curve and full of, should have done that differently.

 

[pro-UP]

Have you ever hustled or owned a small sign shop trying to make it? I did up front art with bids all the time starting out. Rarely was it copied and used elsewhere. You do what you can to get the business when you're new and trying to make a name for yourself. Now that I'm established, I don't have to do that.

I was owner and operator of a wholesale and installation fabrication business. We specialized in ADA, wayfinding, and custom hand crafted commercial signage before selling off that arm of the business and pivoting to consulting and graphic design, takeoff, and project management work. This is me speaking from experience. While I can understand why people would provide free layouts, I would not encourage it. And per your statement you no longer do this either (most likely because you recognize the value intrinsic to this type of work). This is just my humble opinion, not a judgement of what others do or feel that they have to do.